Page 1 of 3 123 Last
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    No where near
    Posts
    558
    Style
    Proudly Shaolin Do.
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    5 element theory

    If this is the wrong place or just worthless move or delete as you feel necessary.


    Okay, since it was originally a chinese theory, or so I was taught, and it has it's place within Hsing I, I thought I work make a thread to put information on it. My knowledge on this subject is not complete but I do know a few things. I was hoping that one of the wonderful practitioners of Hsing I or Pa kua would have more insight for me.



    What I know:
    The five elements: Wood,Fire,Earth,Metal, and Water
    The movements (in order of above): Crush, Pound, Cross, Cleave, and Bore
    The organs associated



    Is there anyone out there who would like to add to the information I have or Advise me to it's use in the internal arts.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    875
    Style
    Judo, Tomiki Aikido, ??

  3. #3
    BudoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Miami, Fl
    Posts
    1,770
    Style
    MMA
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're five elements are all wrong.

    Wind, Fire, Water, Earth, and No-thing.
    "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli
    And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry ************... Budo monkeh.

  4. #4
    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy.... supporting member
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,528
    Style
    EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Budomnkey, thats a different system and I forget its name. "No-thing" or "void" is not an "element", but is in contrast to the other four "things", making a Yin/Yang duality.


    I have an instructor that uses five elements sometimes to catalog things and create a metaphoric visualization for techniques. To me crush and pound are about the same thing and fire should really be "explode" or "consume" instead.

    You can't really just do one set of words like that though. For each thing, each element does it dfferent, so you would have word sets for punches, blocks, tactics, etc...or have cycles of change to explain methods.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc


  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    No where near
    Posts
    558
    Style
    Proudly Shaolin Do.
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    Budomnkey, thats a different system and I forget its name. "No-thing" or "void" is not an "element", but is in contrast to the other four "things", making a Yin/Yang duality.


    I have an instructor that uses five elements sometimes to catalog things and create a metaphoric visualization for techniques. To me crush and pound are about the same thing and fire should really be "explode" or "consume" instead.

    You can't really just do one set of words like that though. For each thing, each element does it dfferent, so you would have word sets for punches, blocks, tactics, etc...or have cycles of change to explain methods.
    Well I have several sheets of paper on all things about 5 element theory but the only martial application I have found is for some Chi gung exercises and for *insert gasp* pressure points.

    Can anyone think of other uses for it?

  6. #6
    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy.... supporting member
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,528
    Style
    EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Did you look at the wiki link above? 5 element theory is not about just what an item is, but what it turns into. Cycles of change is a popular philosophy in Oriental mysticism.

    So for martial arts you need to first define what a strike or block is in terms of element and then decide how that relates to a technique or tactic.

    As an example: A wood property might be that it has deep roots and benifits from earth and water. It might be used to "steal" from earth or water attacks to create a better counter attack. To defeat wood one might use metal or fire. Metal might seek to clever away the root or fire might seek to consume the wood. Both metal and fire techniques might be rapid and use the solid root agaisnt itself. The metal might be a sharp kind of hit, peircing, and the fire might be a surronding all over kind of hit.

    I have no idea if any of that is accurate or true, but thats the kind of stuff I hear or read when people use 5 elements to improve MA.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc


  7. #7
    It is Fake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,588
    Style
    xingyi
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Basically, Xingyi is based on the 5 element theory. One element destroys another (Mutual Destruction cycle), one element can create another (Mutual Destruction Cycle).




    Splitting = Metal
    Pounding = Fire
    Drilling = Water
    Crossing =Earth
    Crushing = Wood

    http://www.plumpub.com/info/knotebook/boxxingyi.htm


    From above website:

    Creation
    WOOD feeds FIRE
    FIRE feeds EARTH
    EARTH begets METAL
    METAL collects WATER
    WATER feeds WOOD etc.


    Destruction:
    WOOD breaks EARTH
    EARTH absorbs WATER
    WATER douses FIRE
    FIRE melts METAL
    METAL splits WOOD



    I'm out. I'll explain my belief later.

  8. #8
    It is Fake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    34,588
    Style
    xingyi
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu

    As an example: A wood property might be that it has deep roots and benifits from earth and water. It might be used to "steal" from earth or water attacks to create a better counter attack. To defeat wood one might use metal or fire. Metal might seek to clever away the root or fire might seek to consume the wood. Both metal and fire techniques might be rapid and use the solid root agaisnt itself. The metal might be a sharp kind of hit, peircing, and the fire might be a surronding all over kind of hit.
    .
    Now, remember while following this logic, in Xingyi it it is more metaphorical.

    In other words, the wood technique (unlike one of my favorite movies) is not necessarily a counter for the earth technique.

    Of course it can be but, you don't want to fall into that trap when training.

  9. #9
    EmetShamash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    516
    Style
    Chinese Martial Arts
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, does this actually have any use in fighting? Sounds pretty archaic to me... and worthless...

  10. #10
    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy.... supporting member
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,528
    Style
    EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a metaphorical exercise, I love this stuff, and that is the direction the one teacher I have that uses these theories reminds us to think of them. It is far more practical to just train and spar of coarse, but the mental contemplation of these philosophies does often in turn lead to insight into the actual action we take in a match.

    and I will be the first to admit I am only a novice in the details here.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc


Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO