Second opinion - sparring video from toronto throwdown

**Sang** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 12:34pm

Yeah i know the leg-catch sweep although i prefer to use a different version where you push forward and trip the back leg, whenever i try that leg sweep i end up taking jabs to the face which sucks. I'll try and give the sweep anna was talking about a go next saturday when i spar a tkd guy again.

**Kokujin** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 12:39pm

I use it in a leg grab situation or when he overcomits to the middle kick...then I chop at his far leg and sweep his ass off the ground!

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 12:40pm

Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity

Yep, that's the one.

Though I usually do it from the outside rather then off a leg catch.

Do you generally always do it to the rear leg leg off of a kick from the outside, or do you use the same entry to the front leg offensively when they're shifting weight?

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 12:53pm

I often go for both legs at the same time(kick hard) unless they're skipping in with their front leg up in anticipation of a kick (bad habit) or I'll throw an actual leg kick or two first and then when I throw another they're going to try and check it, only instead of aiming for the thigh I go low kick their back foot out from under them.

**Angry-Monkey** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 2:26pm

Originally Posted by Khun Kao

LOL.... I am trying hard not to tempt the ban hammer by posting, "KEEP YOUR GUARD UP!", but SHEESH guys! Keep your guard UP!!!!!! Tired is no excuse.

The thing is, because neither of you two used your guard consistently, your defense was to back up. You both just spent the entire round backing away from each others attacks. I realize tiat it was a friendly "playing" type of sparring match. That's cool. I do it all the time. But if you hold a proper guard you can stand right up in someones grill, take everything they can dish out, return in kind, and still look clean and technical while doing all of the above.

The guy in the gray tshirt first needs to work on his stance. While I realize this wasn't necessarily a MuayThai style sparring session, we have a saying in our sport that your stance is your defense. If you have a proper, balanced stance, you could have defended almost all of this attacks with minimal effort or movement, and been in optimal position to counterattack.

And I, too, was wondering what the hell the guy in gray was doing when he grabbed the guys leg and just held it.... I mean, friendly or no, DO SOMETHING!!!!!!

We have a difference of opinion then when it comes to defense. I've never trained or competed in muay thai, but in mma you cant just stand your ground and cover or you're going to get taken down. That, and I love it when people just stand there turtling and let me hit them. Not much of a fan of Lyoto Machida I take it?

The leg grab was explained earlier.

edit: I'd like to point out that I agree that my hands were lower than they should have been. but don't understand why fatigue isn't a valid reason.

Also, I'm not disagreeing with you that covering is a keystone in defense, but I'd rather not get hit if at all possible. The same way I'd prefer to step out of range of a leg kick rather than check it.

**selfcritical** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 2:31pm

Gotcha. From your initial description, i was confusing it with a front leg sweep and push that set up in a somewhat similar fashion (in combat sports the best example I can think of is Lyoto Machida, who does this against a number of people).

**Khun Kao** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 4:47pm

We have a difference of opinion then when it comes to defense. I've never trained or competed in muay thai, but in mma you cant just stand your ground and cover or you're going to get taken down.

True, but there was no MMA in the sparring match until just before the very end. While I realize that an opponent who always retreats from you in a non-confined area is very hard to shoot in on, I never saw anything that even constituted an attempt at a takedown until (again) right before the end of the round.

That, and I love it when people just stand there turtling and let me hit them.

The only time this really happened was when you finally backed him against the wall.

The leg grab was explained earlier.

I missed the explanation and will go back and read it.

I'd like to point out that I agree that my hands were lower than they should have been. but don't understand why fatigue isn't a valid reason.

I guess I have to backtrack a bit on this. Understand that I've been training/fighting MuayThai for 16 years now and holding my guard is is so second nature that it's easy for me. I kinda remember the days how the hands would get heavy and the guard came down. I also remember that while it was uncomfortable and difficult to maintain a guard while tired, I could still do it. Sure, it was hard, but given the choice of having my guard up and getting my face busted, I'd choose the discomfort of holding my guard up.

Also, I'm not disagreeing with you that covering is a keystone in defense, but I'd rather not get hit if at all possible. The same way I'd prefer to step out of range of a leg kick rather than check it.

Yes, but you can defend by avoiding most attacks by using footwork that does not step backwards. I realize you're not an experienced fighter. Heck, as mentioned I've been doing this 16 years and still struggle with my lateral and circular footwork. Y

My point is, you can take a step back out of the way to avoid an attack without backing away, if that makes sense. As an example, a very common defense vs. leg kicks in Muay Thai is to simply take a single step backwards on one side. Right as the intended kick misses, you step back into your stance and counter attack.

Anyway, don't take what I'm saying the wrong way. I'm not trying to "attack" your performance, but give you food for thought on how you can look to improve. Sure, I'm speaking from the perspective of a Muay Thai guy and you're not necessarily looking to fight Muay Thai, but some of the underlying principles remain.

You have to WILL yourself to keep your guard up.... It's ESSENTIAL! That applies to ANY type of realistic fighting (which is why I'm not a fan of Taekwondo). Start trying to find practical methods to train yourself to move circularly or laterally rather than just straight backwards. Learn to minimize your movements while still avoiding strikes rather than blocking them. You have to improve your timing so that you can counter effectively right as you make your opponent miss rather than after he's jumped back out of the way....

**M.C.** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 5:28pm

Can you tell the TKD guy if he is going with paldos all over the place he should do them correct and put his hip into the kick and follow through. Same mistake everywhere I go, people hitting "on the target" but you are supposed to go through, no wonder he did not do any damage.
Even though he has a good switch for TKD purpose, tell him to avoid dropping his hands like that every time he switches, he is bagging for a head kick, even in a TKD event! And he can't box for **** but I guess he already knows that.
What was up with that spinning kick, was it a pande or a tora jop/dyt chagi?
Even if this was a TKD fight, his kicking skills are not that good, sloppy, he is wasting a lot of power and speed due to bad technique.

PS: If he would pull back the kick like he is supposed to do, you would not grabbed his kick and if you did he could easily pulled it back, sloppy technique. This is a drill we do a lot of times, in order to learn how important it is to pull back the kick and if he can't pull the leg back, he should move in and then push you away, off balance you in order to get his leg back.

**Robdogg** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 7:18pm

Tell him to start posting here. Damn.

**Sang** · Posted On: 8/25/2008 10:05pm

About the backup up being a better defence than shelling up i agree, when someone puts there hands up it is like christmas, all the good targets become available. You are much better off either circling backwards away from the punches or blocking individual punches (harder than it looks :( )and firing off your own. Avoiding all kicks is a different matter though, it is almost always worth checking and then firing off a straight or a kick of your own, there is a high chance of you hitting with your shot.

If you backup everytime a kick is thrown you will miss some really good opportunities when they screw the pull back and leave themselves open. MMA it must be a different matter since a conditioned response to firing a leg kick after a check = being taken down so you can't be faulted on not doing this. Also backing up all the time quickly ends up with you in a bad position in the corner of a ring as well as looking bad to the judges, this is one of my biggest errors in MT.