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  1. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 6:11pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They just repatriated about a hundred.

    By the way, the School of the Americas is one of the most exaggerated "evils" around.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 6:20pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by LLL


    I personally don't like any rules at all, but if they exist, then they should be the same for everyone; at the moment they aren't.
    One of the biggest myths around, one that is largely the fault of the US in perpetuating its broad acceptance, is that people are equal and thus should be treated equally. An illiterate fucktard who thinks it is okay to rip off old ladies is not my equal according to any criteria. Nor should such an individual be treated as such.

    As for current events the suspension of habeus corpus for all intents and purposes is very disturbing to me. As far as those in G.Bay go though I also don't know what I would do with them either, there are gray areas in both international and national law, not sure this is one of them but likely is.
  3. Justme is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 6:52pm

    Join us... or die
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is my understanding those in Gitmo are dedicated to fighting America and its allies in their Jihad. They are avowed haters of the West, and what it stands for. They are as much combatants as anyone who has thrown down against us in past wars. They are being detained in a way safe for our people guarding them. I have read they would still kill Americans at any opportunity. So to allow them to do this would be foolish. They are being fed, receiving medical attention. They are the ones who if taken out of shackles would attempt to continue the fight. How else could you treat someone like this? What would you do? Let them go?
  4. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 7:54pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ARRRG I wrote a 3 pages long answer to this, & then my computer or the net fucked it up...

    Anyway, anything I say is MY opinion; not the Europeans, not the Finns', not the people's living in this town. Mine.

    & anyway, I think they should be taken to court, like any other human being & given a sentence. That's it.

    Dochter: The problem is, if someone like you (=smart, handsome, rich, etc) beats up an old woman, should he receive the same sentence as the illiterate drug addict? Yes? Well, I doubt that happens...

    Justme: Do you ever even think, or just believe?; sorry, just asking...
  5. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 7:55pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree. They should be tried under normal legal procedures. I do not believe the security explanation is compelling enough to sacrifice or compromise American justice.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 8:21pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Indeed.

    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    They just repatriated about a hundred.

    By the way, the School of the Americas is one of the most exaggerated "evils" around.
    *chuckle*

    Like it would be better if the south and central american military officers had less professional schooling.

    From the be careful what you ask for you may get it school of public policy.
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 8:23pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Exactly. All these people who have no idea what goes on there, but stand around outside protesting and then harp on these supposed torture manuals....
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 8:35pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I'll disagree with this.

    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    I agree. They should be tried under normal legal procedures. I do not believe the security explanation is compelling enough to sacrifice or compromise American justice.
    As I see it, here's the problem with your solution (FWIW, I think this would be ideal under the right circumstances -- see JW Lindh as a relevant example), they haven't committed a crime yet and, presumably, would be released.

    Unfortunately, a significant portion of these people (I'm not naive enough to say all) are exactly the type of person justme described earlier. Is it reasonable to release them back into the world where they could conceivably re-enroll in Terrorism 101?

    As an almost relevant aside, here in Washington state, we have civil confinement for certain sex offenders. After serving their sentence, someone (a psychiatrist I believe) determines their likelihood to re-offend. Long story short, a small number of people end up confined after they've served their sentence. Granted: they've already committed crimes so it's an imperfect comparison, but precedent exists for prophylactic confinement.

    Overall, I've found the European response to this issue fascinating. It's unclear to me how anyone would give a f*** about some guy picked up as a combative foreigner in Afghanistan. Sheesh, even if you hate the US, it's gotta dawn on them that they're a huge f'ing danger and that, all in all, they're reasonably well-treated.
  9. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 8:40pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fragbot,
    Combative foreigner in Afghanistan? Sheesh, if some foreign soldiers landed in your backyard, I bet you'd fight too, right?

    I just can't get around this:

    "they haven't committed a crime yet and, presumably, would be released."

    Well...yep.
    Last edited by The Wastrel; 12/10/2003 8:49pm at .
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  10. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/10/2003 8:49pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    Fragbot,
    Combative foreigner is Afghanistan? Sheesh, if some foreign soldiers landed in your backyard, I bet you'd fight too, right?
    I'm not talking about Afghanis. It's more the visitors who came there to train 'cause it was essentially lawless. I should probably check to see the numbers, but a large percentage of those in Cuba *aren't* from Afghanistan. They're people who travelled there to fight for Allah.

    "they haven't committed a crime yet and, presumably, would be released."
    Some people would be fine with that, but I don't think it's a sensible approach for handling those who view terror as a means of effecting social change. Hmmm, as I wrote that, it occurred to me that you could frame this as equivalent to an involuntary committal--danger to self *or* others. Again, it's precedent for a legal option that's rarely applied but exists for good reason.

    edited to fix a typo
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