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  1. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 12:30am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry d00d!! 0ur B4D!
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  2. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 12:38am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There can be no forgiveness for '8 simple Rules for dating my teenage daughter'
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  3. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 2:04am


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1. US interest = world interest. Tell it to the Central Americans. Tell it to the Hawaiians. Tell it to the Canadians, for Christís sake. By the way, there was a bumper sticker on a car in Hawaii. Blame Canada.
    The US had an interest in containing communism. In this, I'd say we were aligned with world interest.

    Unless you believe the world would've been better off with even more Soviet satellites. . .if you believe this, I'm dying to understand how you came to this, er, conclusion.

    How clever!. Anyway, how about clever ideas like putting the Shah of Iran in power. That was certainly in US and world interest. Well rather it was in the interest of Gulf Oil, which is where the CIA spook who ran the Shah program ended up with his reward being a big fat job after installing the TORTURING asshole as dictator of Iran.
    They were worried about a Soviet satellite in the Middle East. Particularly one close to the Straits of Hormuz. Furthermore, (here's why I haven't unequivocally came down on supporting the Shah as a bad thing) we strategically wanted to deny the Soviets a warm-water port.

    Gee frag, care to actually think about your assumptions, or do you just get off on illogical rants?
    I've responded to you as best I could and as specifically as I've could. OTOH, you've meandered about like a wandering stream.

    For Christís sake it was the US Army liaison in El Salvador in the 1930ís that wrote a report saying what a fucked up situation of endless struggle intermixed with sporadic wars faced that nation. He witnessed the slaughter of over 30,000 peasants and just like the US Army guys in Vietnam at the end of World War 2, said that the US was on the wrong side Much like the Soviet military and KGB that were in Afghanistan said to Moscow before their war started. Funny how the professionals are right and the idiots in the Pentagon and White House and Kremlin keep getting it wrong.
    If it wasn't so long, I'd take that paragraph as my new signature. I read and comprehend much better than the average bear and, after 3 reads, I have absolutely no idea what point you were trying to make.

    2 Murderous ideology contest. Hitler must rank up there pretty high and ideology was fascism, last I looked. Fascism is the ultimate insane form of capitalism, as Pol Pot was the ultimate insane form of communism. Pol Pot probably ranks as the most murderous. http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/images/ts_vctms.jpg
    Stalin was pretty high up there also. However the genocide is a bit more subtle with capitalism.
    According to a coupla French academics who wrote "The Black Book of Communism," it was responsible for around 100 million deaths. While I think they're a bit on the high side, they're not that far off.

    How about the US vetoing measures against Nestles Corporation in the UN? Nestles was and is promoting formula over breast milk. Research suggest the death rate from diarrhea is 14 times greater in 3rd world countries when mothers use formula. (http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~stu/milk.htm) But what the hell, we should just buy Nestles stock and **** the goddamn babies, thereís too many of them around already. Let the goddamn invisible beneficial HAND OF THE MARKET PLACE run the show.
    While I know about Nestle and the formula issue (though they apparently have a corporate policy that addresses most of what I've heard them accused of in the past), I'm not sure how the US is involved since Nestle's a Swiss company. I guess we were handing out the veto on behalf of a Swiss company. Interesting.

    Back to the point at hand, respond to the following gedanken experiment:

    if capitalism was clobbered by communism and nestle clobbered by nestlekulturny, would the infant death rate be higher or lower than it currently is?

    If you consider yourself a thoughtful man, come up with a supported answer.

    So anyhow Iím getting tired of writing this so Iíll stop. If you can actually respond to specific examples like Nestles or Iran, I would appreciate it. It is easy to argue and find differences. If we look at actual FACTS, like babies dying, people tend to come to agree on solutions, and ignore ideology.
    Specific examples? I'll do you that courtesy. You, I'm sure, will continue to ignore everything I write. In particular, I'm sure you'll ignore any question likely to provoke a reasonable discussion.
  4. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 11:44am

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     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fragbot - If actually do a web search theres several sites that mentions atheism killed more people than those of religious leanings. Not my sites. Theres a couple of theologians walking around making that comment. Not me. Go ask them if you must.
    Last edited by Freddy; 12/19/2003 12:02pm at .
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  5. fragbot is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 12:08pm


     Style: japanese jujutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Okay I found a coupla examples

    Originally posted by Freddy
    Fragbot - If actually do a web search theres several sites that mentions atheism killed more people than those of religious leanings. Not my sites. Theres a couple of theologians walking around making that comment. Not me. Go ask them if you must.
    Though they make you look either disingenuous or stupid. Specifically, they refer to the "godless" communism.

    It's possible, I suppose, that you're trying to imply the struggle against communism was *really* about Christianity or something. I don't buy it 'cause I've read some of your other posts. Subtly and cleverness don't seem to be your strong suits.
  6. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 12:21pm

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     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It just shows the type of mentallity you are. Turning this into something personal.
    Whether its "Godless" "communism" or not it was just a comment. Think you were taking it too seriously.
    Last edited by Freddy; 12/19/2003 12:29pm at .
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 12:54pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I have more to say, but first I am sorry if my sterling reputation for logic and reason was damaged by jet lag and booze. I'll try harder to communicate.

    Leon Trotsky in 1924: "The revolution is over and we have lost."
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 1:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what I have read. Leon Trotsky was an interesting figure. He believed that an internal revolution has taken placed within the Bolshevik Party and that the Soviet Union was no longer heading in the direction of socialism but against socialism.
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
  9. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/19/2003 1:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh Well you learn something everyday.
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
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