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  1. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/30/2008 2:44pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    Everyone I know who saw their fight said that Tom did not look slow at all next to Eric Knauss, who is extraordinarily mobile.
    How long was the fight? Outcome?

    BTW, my money on Top Dog anytime.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  2. Sun_Helmet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2008 7:34am


     Style: Sayoc Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    How long was the fight? Outcome?

    BTW, my money on Top Dog anytime.
    Well time to pay up. :)

    So far you're 0 for 2 on your assumptions.

    As for blanket statement - you make assumptions without providing evidence such as "some" this or "many. many" that when it is obvious to those in Sayoc, and who know the individuals whom you are commenting on to be statements that are completely off base.

    We don't post everyone's pic online and then you turn around and cite scouring the internet for "proof". I don't need to do that. I'm in the system and can see the individuals in person.
    I just posted a pic with some "top instructors" who can do the twenty pullup criteria you cited and you still think the majority in the pic couldn't.
    Last edited by Sun_Helmet; 10/01/2008 7:56am at .
  3. Sun_Helmet is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2008 8:21am


     Style: Sayoc Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    I don't think that anyone who is the least bit familiar with the subject of fitness would think that 20 pullups is equal to heavy wt deadlifts. Do you? (your post is getting very convoluted...)
    If one states they can keep up with ANY type of exercise then deadlift is an exercise that falls into the fitness category. Crossfitters do it, many athletes do it. So if your criteria is 20 pullups, that's because YOU are using an exercise that is within your comfort zone. If the criteria is a 350 pound hang clean for example, then you may change your tune.

    It gets convoluted because your premise is offbase. Therefore when it is deconstructed and actually picked apart it confuses you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    I haven't fallen into any kind of trap whatsoever. I can peruse Sayoc Kali websites and find quite a few examples of morbidly obese individuals in paramilitary garb, armed head to toe with aluminum trainers. Look around for yourself...
    You do realize that is me standing between the Penn brothers don't you?
    So that kinda means I know who I am speaking of, as compared to how many Sayoc instructors have you personally trained with again?

    Therefore, to make my point simpler for you:

    !. I do not need to peruse the internet when I actually train and know who are in the Sayoc system.
    2. We don't post all the full instructors pics online. In fact, in their line of work it isn't advisable to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    On the other hand, do you believe that a serious level of fitness is necessary to apply or practice Sayoc Kali?
    1. Like many people you confuse Fitness with Combatives training.

    2. Since you don't know Sayoc Kali, you apply your limited views of our combative methodology to yours.

    3. Individuals in Sayoc come in all ages, sizes and fitness levels. Some are powerlifter types, others tri-athletes/crossfit instructors, HUNDREDS are ACTIVE military but none confuse fitness with combatives training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    You really need to back down and perhaps learn to read. I already posted on this above.
    I think the problem here is I READ you too well and you're out of your comfort zone.

    I made sure my initial post to you was polite even though YOU posted an insult to the Sayoc systems UNPROVOKED and now you are asking me to back down.

    Do you feel victimized?

    Guess that joke of yours wasn't so funny afterall was it?




    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    When it comes to Fight or Flight, I think his options are rather limited...

    Well that tells me a lot about your training, because if you actually knew who you were talking about then you'd never type that ridiculous statement. But hey, you've obviously been wrong before.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    Have the former Sayoc leaders been deposed in some kind of Heffalump coup? The average body fat % may have changed over the years, I'll grant that. Perhaps the ranks have simply swelled? (No Pun Intended)

    Let's make sure you know who you're talking about first.
    This is a VERY simple question.

    NAME the top instructors in Sayoc Kali and then name who you actually met and trained with?

    Answer this first, and I'll know how much you understand about Sayoc Kali.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    Really? Well, then try contributing something of substance, as I and others have above. Read the OP.
    Sorry, you can't insult a whole group of highly trained individuals online and then expect them to follow your silly request when the iron gets hot.

    How about this tip for STRENGTH in ARNIS?

    Don't allow ego and insecurity to force you to insult individuals who have contributed and continue to contribute so much to the evolution of FMA on an online forum.

    STRENGTH in ARNIS can also be measured by one's mental capacity to have the forethought of making good decisions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    He's talking about building arm and wrist strength to be able to handle metal weapons as well as rattan, or if rattan would even be effective.
    Speaking of convoluted! JIm_Jude mixes apples, mangoes and shoe leather into one garbled incoherent comment as if they were all the same.

    There's a ton of strength building exercises that Sayoc does. Anyone who has ever trained in Sayoc has witnessed how much power can be generated when appropriate. But Fitness is not Combatives and there's lots of weapon specific criteria that have to be factored in.

    I only wanted to bring to the attention the thread drift posted by Jim_Jude. Who now wants me to return to the actual thread he convoluted in the first place.

    However for the benefit of anyone who has read thus far:

    If you're handling "metal weapons" (what the heck is THAT?) - you must understand the attributes and design of your weapon.

    Each weapon has a specific advantageous use and each has a weakness.

    Strength for EDGED weapons is not primary. Only if you think of blade weapons as sticks. Like impact weapons to create blunt force trauma.
    That means you are utilizing stick methods for a whole different kind of weapon.

    SOME principles may be the same, but to use the weapon for its primary purpose - you must learn the principles of edged weapons, and all the ranges that a specific edged weapon is lethal at.

    It isn't one exercise that will help you and certainly 20 pullups is not gonna help at all in the grand scheme of things. Not for edged weapons work.

    Lastly, don't confuse Fitness with Combatives.
    Last edited by Sun_Helmet; 10/01/2008 8:36am at .
  4. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2008 9:10am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jim and Tuhon Raphael, would you mind if the sayoc tanget got split into it's own thread(same forum, same page) and we kept the last bit of sun helmets post here(on the specific properties of edged weapons, etc etc), in the technical discussion?
  5. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/01/2008 6:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by selfcritical
    Jim and Tuhon Raphael, would you mind if the sayoc tanget got split into it's own thread(same forum, same page) and we kept the last bit of sun helmets post here(on the specific properties of edged weapons, etc etc), in the technical discussion?

    I could care less if you deleted all of those posts. I made a simple point:

    How many escrimadors/arnis players can do 20 Pullups or Chinups, let alone 10, or even 5??? That's not a very good requirement, imo...
    ... and cited some Sayoc senior practitioners as examples. "sun helmet" took offense (for whatever reason, perhaps he himself is overweight?) and tried to start an argument about "fitness", combative or otherwise, when that isn't even the topic of the thread. The topic of the thread is arm strength.

    I say delete the whole mess.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  6. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    10/01/2008 6:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sun_Helmet
    Well time to pay up. :)
    Ummmm, VID???

    We don't post everyone's pic online and then you turn around and cite scouring the internet for "proof". I don't need to do that. I'm in the system and can see the individuals in person.
    That's nice. Hearsay. Forgive me if I don't take what anonymous "sun helmet" people on the internet have to say as gospel truth...

    I just posted a pic with some "top instructors" who can do the twenty pullup criteria you cited and you still think the majority in the pic couldn't.
    Jeezus, man, that's not even the point!!!! Fucking learn to read. I MYSELF SAID THAT IT WASN'T A GOOD REQUIREMENT!!!! & CITED OVERWEIGHT SAYOC PRACTITIONERS AS EXAMPLES. GET A FUCKING GRIP.

    Oh, & where did I say, or think, that "the majority in the pic couldn't"? Hey, I like what I've seen in Sayoc, don't get me wrong, & be proud of your art, you should be, it's a good art. I'm proud of mine. I also have Sayoc Kali materials & think they're good.

    I don't really feel like having this conversation anymore, mostly because you seem to have completely missed my initial point and somehow think that I'm a Sayoc naysayer. I'm not.
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 10/01/2008 6:23pm at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
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