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  1. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2008 1:01pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, one could argue all that twirling and moving the stick around over great distances is thus useless once you actually have to move something with mass, so we could say you need to change your technique completely, or only use the light rattan stick.

    I am not going to go there though as I have been told I don't do the real FMA.

    For strength training I purchased a 24 inch length of steel pipe(natural gas/plumbing line) and a length of threaded 3/4 inch steel lag bolt. I coated the lag bolt with 2 part epoxy and shoved it inside the pipe. I capped the ends with more epoxy. Very heavy and the perfect device for checking that your hits are all aligned bio-mechanically. Makes you learn to align the wrist at all times and move the weapon with the trunk not the arm.
    Last edited by Dr._Tzun_Tzu; 8/20/2008 4:26pm at . Reason: spelling

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  2. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2008 5:53pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu

    For strength training I purchased a 24 inch length of steel pipe(natural gas/plumbing line) and a length of threaded 3/4 inch steel lag bolt. I coated the lag bolt with 2 part epoxy and shoved it inside the pipe. I capped the ends with more epoxy.

    How heavy is that?

    I think most small swords won't go over 3 pounds, so one should use that as a guide.
  3. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2008 7:54pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct, even German longswords didn't usually top 3lbs for a two-handed weapon.
  4. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2008 10:45pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How much does it "weight" when your sword crashes into theirs at full speed?

    I think it was like 8 pounds? I can go weight it later.

    It is purposely heavy to test the geometry of the motion. example: sometimes when twirling and twisting a figure 8 pattern and coming around to a #2, often we find we are leading with the side of the stick and back of the hand. This weak angle can not be done against an incoming strike and is impossible to do with a heavy steel bar. So the bar is more of a weight protractor then a strength training method in the traditional sense.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  5. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2008 11:13pm


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I must admit as to being confused as to what you are describing here. Surely if it's a bladed implement, you are leading with either

    a) the point or
    b) the blade

    at all times. Edge orientation will generally show you the correct mechanics.

    Of course, how to develop technique for power and how to condition the body for it are to some degree two seperate questions, and I think the latter is what is being raised here.
  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/21/2008 12:27am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In LWS we always strike with the blade or tip, even if using a rattan stick. However when training it is easy to slip up and strike with the side of a stick. A heavy rod will not let this happen. It hurts immediately.

    We don't strike anything with it. Its a solo exercise.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2008 10:58am


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    In LWS we always strike with the blade or tip, even if using a rattan stick. However when training it is easy to slip up and strike with the side of a stick. A heavy rod will not let this happen. It hurts immediately.

    We don't strike anything with it. Its a solo exercise.

    Why not just use a taped up sword, if one was concerned about using swords? Again, for solo use.

    I only ask, because it seems kinda odd to tell the OP that if he's having issues with a 1 to 2 pound weapon, he should just practice with an 8 pound weapon without expecting some injuries to come of it. That's how I see it.

    I think the OP would do better with the towel pullups, and occasionally training with the swords.

    Maybe the OP can let us in on what his instructor told them to do about this situation. I'm pretty interested in that response.
    Last edited by nomamao; 8/22/2008 11:09am at .
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2008 12:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao
    Why not just use a taped up sword, if one was concerned about using swords? Again, for solo use.

    .......

    This is another great way to train, but not supplemental weight training.

    again, I will explain.

    If you want to improve something do you weight train at the desired weight or do you sometimes work less in reps but with MORE weight?

    Do you run through tires and under/over obstacles because you will face tire fields in battle, or because the difficulty of it improves regular footwork?

    Do you lift weights using a stability ball or Dyna disks because you may have to stand on one leg in battle or to improve the motor reflex recruitment and kinetic chain control?

    Does that help? In training we do one thing to improve something different sometimes, its not always 1 to 1.

    In my system, when using an exact weapon, like a taped up sword, you do exactly what you should do. No supplemental stuff. If you wanted to do drill movements around a concept you use a prop, like a stick or a weighted bar. Helps keep it in focus.

    So if he discovers his technique is weak with the actual weapon, he may try to improve the methods with a heavier object so that when he has the weapon its easier.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2008 3:22pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd only think that one would go to the weighted object AFTER he has become comfortable with the object he is already handling.

    The OP has already stated that he's got an issue with the heavy weight of what he's already wielding, so I feel that in telling him to improve his overall strength, he'd be not only better equipped for the weapon of choice, but sooner rather than later be able to take on the even heavier training utensil.


    To just hand him an even heavier tool and make him wield that as he would the lighter sword, it's quite easy to see he's being set up for certain injury if left to his own devices, especially when weights/bodyweight exercises/plyometrics are completely ignored.

    Neither one of us knows how long this person has been training, what physical ability he's at, or even what swords he's talking about, so I'm staying with the safer method of the two when compared with your "oh, you can't handle one pound? Here, do 10" I'd rather go the "hey, why don't you work on your overall conditioning and give it another try?"

    But, that may just be me.

    I wonder what the OP thinks.
  10. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2008 3:53pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with your sentiment and the point you are making.

    However, consider that a slow progression into the heavy tool may allow the bad habits to also progress. The point of slowly trying to do the form with a heavy rod is in its extreme nature. It is exactly the major difference (and injury risk) that provides the training reference point.

    I would hope the internet reader would be smart enough to not hurt themselves.

    another example of this type of cross over is how Kettlebell swings and press improve both the squat and the pull up. The extreme stress of it activiates proper technique and form.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

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