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  1. Krijgsman is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/06/2013 4:27pm


     Style: Judo noob, injured guy.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pretty sure that most of the "Sambo = Russian Judo" is a combo of people being more familiar in the West with Judo than with the regional folk-wrestling styles of the former Soviet Union, and the fact that one of the two men two created (organized? gathered?) Sambo was a fucking Judo black belt. One of the first non-Japanese Judo black belts, if I recall. So, he was probably heavily influence by Judo, though the other wrestling styles are certainly present as well.

    That was crankier sounding than I wanted it to be...

    Anyway, for a non-eastern European/central Asian, Russian Judo is a much easier concept to understand as a basic understanding than Soviet folk-wrestling and Judo influenced self defense adapted into a jacket-wrestling sport.

    Though I guess "Russian Jacket Wrestling" is probably just as useful.

    Dammit, I helped a thread necro.
  2. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2013 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Krijgsman View Post
    Pretty sure that most of the "Sambo = Russian Judo" is a combo of people being more familiar in the West with Judo than with the regional folk-wrestling styles of the former Soviet Union, and the fact that one of the two men two created (organized? gathered?) Sambo was a fucking Judo black belt. One of the first non-Japanese Judo black belts, if I recall. So, he was probably heavily influence by Judo, though the other wrestling styles are certainly present as well.

    That was crankier sounding than I wanted it to be...

    Anyway, for a non-eastern European/central Asian, Russian Judo is a much easier concept to understand as a basic understanding than Soviet folk-wrestling and Judo influenced self defense adapted into a jacket-wrestling sport.

    Though I guess "Russian Jacket Wrestling" is probably just as useful.

    Dammit, I helped a thread necro.
    Look into the political stuff that was going on with the founder of Sambo. It's pretty interesting. Like why the Russians insist that Sambo came from folk style stuff that was going on for years, but the guys who developed Sambo went all over the world to research the techniques. And yeah, you are right that he was a Judo Black belt, but the government wanted a "russian" system. A lot of interesting stuff in there.

    My knowledge is superficial, Steve has the real knowledge!
    Combatives training log.

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    Drum thread

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  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2013 1:54pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blvovsky View Post
    Partially true - much of Russian Judo is Sambo in Judo rules even in some cases players themselves do not realize that.
    One important thing to mention - a classic myth is that Sambo is a "Russian adopted Judo". The fact is Sambo can be considered to be Judo is much lesser than, say, Georgian Chidaoba. Famous “Russian grips” came from this great Georgian wrestling system into Sambo and then from Sambo into Judo. Check yourself (just Google) how many gold medals last Olympics were won with Russian grips vs Japanese classic straight stance. Another system is Uzbek’s Kurash had a great influence on Sambo. Till now people from that region call Sambo a "Russian adopted Kurash". Doesn’t it sound similar to calling it Judo adaptation? Similarly many other systems influenced Sambo and could be called by their name + “Russian adopted”. All of them are integral parts and Sambo learned from all of them to become a very flexible system to create 2 world popular sports (Sport Sambo and Combat Sambo), and a few special application systems for police, army and special forces.
    Anyways, last Olympics show the difference between Russian sambo Judo style and Japanese straight stance - check out Olympic Judo results by country :) After that, an interesting exercise would be to add results from other former Soviet Union republics (same style). Also good to mention that by number of Judokas and a popularity of Judo Russia is considerably below than Japan. For those who understand statistics it means a lot.
    Don't get me wrong - I like Judo - the great Japanese martial art. It's just a common myth of Japan having a monopoly in martial arts, it's unreal "secrets" and an exaggerated push of outdated Japanese tradition into modern international sport - that's wrong IMHO. And it doesn't do a good job for Judo popularity in today's environment either.
    I like you. *pees on blvovsky's leg.

    I think I will keep you.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2013 1:54pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blvovsky View Post
    Partially true - much of Russian Judo is Sambo in Judo rules even in some cases players themselves do not realize that.
    One important thing to mention - a classic myth is that Sambo is a "Russian adopted Judo". The fact is Sambo can be considered to be Judo is much lesser than, say, Georgian Chidaoba. Famous “Russian grips” came from this great Georgian wrestling system into Sambo and then from Sambo into Judo. Check yourself (just Google) how many gold medals last Olympics were won with Russian grips vs Japanese classic straight stance. Another system is Uzbek’s Kurash had a great influence on Sambo. Till now people from that region call Sambo a "Russian adopted Kurash". Doesn’t it sound similar to calling it Judo adaptation? Similarly many other systems influenced Sambo and could be called by their name + “Russian adopted”. All of them are integral parts and Sambo learned from all of them to become a very flexible system to create 2 world popular sports (Sport Sambo and Combat Sambo), and a few special application systems for police, army and special forces.
    Anyways, last Olympics show the difference between Russian sambo Judo style and Japanese straight stance - check out Olympic Judo results by country :) After that, an interesting exercise would be to add results from other former Soviet Union republics (same style). Also good to mention that by number of Judokas and a popularity of Judo Russia is considerably below than Japan. For those who understand statistics it means a lot.
    Don't get me wrong - I like Judo - the great Japanese martial art. It's just a common myth of Japan having a monopoly in martial arts, it's unreal "secrets" and an exaggerated push of outdated Japanese tradition into modern international sport - that's wrong IMHO. And it doesn't do a good job for Judo popularity in today's environment either.
    I like you. *pees on blvovsky's leg.

    I think I will keep you.
  5. blvovsky is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2013 10:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: sambo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah I see your point of western mind simplification practice - makes sense - we all try to simplify things to ease understanding. Just a few things sometimes get lost in translation :)
    One thing to mention (which might get nervous a few people :) ) is that Sambo is a Self Defense system and is NOT a Martial Art in the common sense of this word:
    1. Sambo is free of philosophical doctrine or religious ground unlike other martial arts;
    2. There is no one (or two like you mentioned) founder(s) to follow, which every MA has;
    3. Sambo does not accept any authority (kinda The Big Teacher said to do it this way) Although there are people who were pioneers and are respected a lot, but others, who do development can override previous ideas as soon as those stop working. Just to mention, in addition to 2 mentioned by you "founders" (which were just pioneers), the actual work on systematization of Sambo was done later by Kharlampiev. Who is also not considered as a "founder" :) Because of him and his team Sambo became in 1940 close to what it is now, now with first two.
    Other words you will not find bowing to pictures of dead Big Teacher(s) in Sambo class :)
    It doesn't mean disrespect to those who did a big add on and influence into Sambo but rather the opposite - sincere recognition without humiliating exaggeration.

    By all means, you can call it "Russian Jacket Wrestling" or "Russian Judo". Just maybe it is interesting to know that it is further from Judo than a kickboxing :)
  6. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2013 10:38pm

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     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omega's peeing on people again. Someone get a towel.

    NAUGHTY!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    Ups to Battlefields for dropping the sage wisdom.

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    Battlefields... You're more of a man than I am.
    GET A RED BELT OR DIE TRYIN'.
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