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  1. ITRY is offline

    Featherweight

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    Aug 2008
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 10:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo Ippon rule leads to bad habbits?

    This is a question for the Judo guys and gals :new_evil:

    I sometimes watch a Judo club that meets at the same location where my GF takes yoga. I wouldn't mind studying Judo but the hours don't fit with my schedule so I just watch the last ten minutes of their class. :love4:


    Last week these higher students were randori and everyone was watching, you could hear a pin drop it was really gripping to watch. One got thrown by a ???hip throw??? and landed on his head somehow. His neck collapsed and I felt a gulp go down my throat becos it looked really nasty but somehow he was ok. Anyway this is what confused me:

    The Judo guys were impressed that he had somehow avoided being thrown onto his back because that would have been an Ippon score.

    So does judo teach you that it is better to land on your head than your back?
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 10:50pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, that's an example of sport perversion of intelligent training IMO.

    There's a rather popular judo coach who doesn't teach ukemi--one of the most valuable skills someone can pick up from judo training!--at ALL. He teaches roundoffs, neck bridges (to land like you describe) and other gymnastics...but no ukemi. He doesn't want any of his students doing ukemi ("slap-the-mat falls" he calls them) during a match.

    He has a point...but no.
  3. Mas is offline
    Mas's Avatar

    Antiquated

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 11:06pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    All these Judo questions as of late, Awesome!

    Good ukemi (breakfalls) is the foundation of good Judo. However, in the context of intense competition, there is merit to not focusing on it.

    For hobby Judo however, there is no excuse for poor ukemi, simply because there is no reason not to take a fall.

  4. Just Guess is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 11:17pm


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Any competition rule set is going to build bad habits unfortunately. That doesn't mean the competition itself is bad though. Watching Judo in the Olympics I don't think ippon is emphasized enough actually.
  5. Bugeisha is offline

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    Mar 2005
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    Minnesota, USA
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    475

    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 11:41pm


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The judo club I played at (and will be returning to when I'm back home) talked about that rece ntly When a tourney comes up, we will occasionally practice not taking falls. In our classes, even in randori, we stress taking ukemi. It prolongs your life as a judoka.
  6. cuatro76 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2007
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    Dallas
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 11:53pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unless your're an elite level competitor, it's not worth risking an injury to your neck. Ending up with fused vertebrae could be the least of your problems.

    Tell your GF to quit Yoga and sign the two of you up for that Judo class. It'll be fun.
  7. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
    Kentucky Fried Chokin's Avatar

    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    5,450

    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 12:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the real problem with Judo is the only ground game a lot of people are taught is turtle to stall out the clock.
  8. Deadmeat is offline
    Deadmeat's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Australia
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 12:43am


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gerald Lafon, a 5th dan Master Instructor for US Judo is well known for teaching his students to Turnout instead of doing proper Ukemi, which is a little controversial in some circles.

    Here's an excerpt from an article he wrote, which can be found here: http://www.judoinfo.com/pdf/ukemi.pdf
    For the last twenty years, I haven’t taught my students how to do ukemi, at least not the traditional ukemi one thinks of when the word is uttered. Modernists call that form of ukemi mat bashing. If you ask many Judo people in Southern California what they think of me, the very first thing out of their mouths is “he doesn’t teach his kids how to fall” as they roll their eyes and imply that I am crazy.
    He actually makes a pretty good case for his approach, but personally, I think Ukemi is very important, and try to spend a lot of time working on my falls and rolling.

    Interestingly, a friend of mine who is a good freestyle wrestler told me he has never been taught to breakfall, and that he "basically just figured out over time how to take falls in ways that don't leave him as disadvantaged in competition".
  9. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 1:18am


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who are these 'modernists' that think that what is probably the most important part of Judo is a bad thing?
  10. pontoon is offline

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    Apr 2008
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    Sydney, Australia
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    174

    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 1:56am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think this comes down to whether you'd rather lose by ippon or lose by breaking your neck. It's utterly stupid to risk serious injury just to prevent "losing" randori, let alone a competition. Hell, who gives a damn if you get thrown during training?!?!
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