8/12/2008 12:51am, #41Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
Check This vid on YouTube. In Pancrase, there is a great combination of fists to the body and hooking/swinging palms to the head and palm heel thrusts to the face.
You see a myriad of shots for awhile and then around :50 a palm heel puts a guy on his ass.
About 1:05 with palm heel thrust to Mo Smith (I think). Another at 1:09.
At 1:35 a short right palm heel hook puts a guy down. Not a haymaker.
At about 2:00 on you see Bas using a barrage of palm strikes, hooks, & uppercuts, all to good effect.
At about 2:10, Bas puts down Frank Shamrock with a kick and two short palm hook combo.
At 2:22, Bas applies a great back fist. It doesn't apply, but IT'S BAD ASS!!!
About 2:40, a couple palm hooks and then a few STRONG right palms directly to the head for effect. Watch up through 2:58 for a knockout with just palms and knees.
3:16, a punch that ruptures the guy's liver (its just fun)
Hard to Soft (Fist to Body), Soft to Hard (Palm/Chop to Face/Head/Bone).
BAS MAKES IT WORK!!!
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself."Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***
"The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19
"Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
8/12/2008 3:43am, #42
This is my take on the matter:
A fist is naturally going to be harder. Its denser, and heavier then the heel of your hand (which as i understand, is what your supposed to hit with...). A fist will hit with more force (usually) and do more damage (usually). Damage to both parties. Trust me, i've broken 3 fingers, my 5th metacarpal, and displaced a tendon in my pinkie from punching (albeit, incorrectly, but in a self defense situation, how many people are going to be capable of making a technically perfect fist?)
i think the heel thrust should be used in regards to vital point striking. No, i'm not talking d1m m4k, or n3rve strik3s. IMO, the whole "vital point" moniker came from...i can hit home-boy in the arm, or i can hit home-boy in the solar plexus. Which one is more effective?
Anyhow, i think a heel thrust to the solar plexus, nose, ears, groin (if something went wrong) or upwards into the chin would be quite effective.
Besides, you don't have to one hit KO the attacker anyway. As gene lebell...or is it wally jay (?) put it: put them in pain now, keep them in pain always...
8/12/2008 4:31am, #43
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Unless you've done 'iron palm' style hand conditioning the skin on your palm is thicker than the skin on your knuckles (try a pinch test). This means that a palm strike is less likely to break open the skin if you contact the teeth. In a streetfight you're not wearing gloves or wraps and nobody's wearing a mouthguard.
So if you want to break someones teeth you should use a palmstrike.
otherwise you could get a fight bite like this:
Scroll down for some fabulous pictures! once you see the pictures you'll understand why RBSD instructors of all kinds reccomend not using your knuckles.
Last edited by sprunghunt; 8/12/2008 4:34am at .
8/12/2008 7:28am, #44
Dude looks like he got in a fight with a nasty spider.
8/12/2008 7:38am, #45
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
Having just watched/masturbated over the Bas Rutten HL vid on youtube I can confirm that he throws right crosses with an open palm as well as powa! slaps.
8/12/2008 7:46am, #46
I've always dug that HL vid....but bas rutten sure is an ugly man.
He does show that there's no real reason why you cant palm someone straight in the face. It's not going to have the cutting impact on them but still isn't going to be fun.
8/12/2008 8:07am, #47Originally Posted by sprunghunt
Honestly, this just makes scared to hit people in the face with anything, palm, fist, or otherwise.
Jim Jude's video, however I find quite enlightening - specifically the shot at 0:50, wherein Bas seems to KO someone with a straight palm heel thrust (rather than a powe slap, the effectiveness of which is demonstrated a great many times).
I have to say, this changes my opinion of palm heel thrusts, and upgrades them from "**** I've never seen work" (a category which includes wrist returns and spear hands) to "**** I've seen work on rare occasion" (which includes wake gatame and cartwheel kicks).
8/12/2008 8:48am, #48Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
While I'm not entirely sure on this, I'm roughly 60% sure he broke a guys nose with his palm thrust. I can't remember if it was a thrust or a slap, but he did in fact break a guys nose with his palm.
Disregarding the loss of power and reach,
it seems like throwing your fleshy palm straight into someone's face is likely to lead to a teeth-versus-palm scenario in which the meat of your hand does not fair well.
Furthermore, throwing one's hand straight forward with the fingers/wrist bent back and up is both leaving them in the ideal position to be bent back unnaturally, and supplying the force in the necessary vector to bend them back. All it would take is in an object - say, your opponents hands or head - intercepting your hand at the fingers or the top the palm to violently bend the hand back whilst throwing the palm heel thrust.
Once again, I think you're overestimating things. A meteorite could fall out of the sky and crush my palm hand. A velociraptor could waltz into the room with a .45 and shoot my palm hand. Fact is, it is very unlikely; for this to occur, the angle of your initial palm thrust would have to be ridiculous. Remember, you're aiming with the heel of your palm. So for your hand to bend backwards, you'd have to unexpectedly hit something as it was moving up. Unless you're punching from well above your opponent (You're a freakishly tall person, he is a midget), and he happens to decide to suddenly jump up, I don't see this happening too often.
To reiterate: Bas Rutten did it, maimed with it, and broke noses with it.
Edit: God damn it. Everyone beat me to it. I need to refresh before I post.
8/12/2008 9:40am, #49Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
8/12/2008 9:51am, #50Originally Posted by WhiteShark
and this post, of course.