The Palm Heel Thrust Discussion Thread

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 6:49pm

I sometimes jab with the outside edge my palm. It's not super common for me to do it in sparring or in a fight but I've done it, I mostly practice them on the bag because I have messed up hands and can't really make a good fist unless I wrap my hands with something to make a kind of grip bar so I find alternate ways to hit for situations where I wont be able to wrap my hands.

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 6:50pm

Originally Posted by OZZ

First off, you don't train palm strikes on a heavy bag unless you are an idiot.

Well I'm glad to know where I stand :P

**OZZ** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 6:57pm

Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity

Well I'm glad to know where I stand :P

If you are experienced and have good technique, the chance of injury goes down. But putting a noob in front of a heavy bag and encouraging him or her to palm strike it is likely not a good idea..
I think you know what I mean, dearie..

**maofas** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 8:30pm

It's a valid substitute for a punch. They can be done straight, hook, or uppercut style. Part of what protects your fingers is that you don't always need to hold your hand horizontally like in the picture Annatrocity posted to show proper finger form. You can hold your striking surface vertical (same finger form), which, against some targets/angles, fits in much better (for example, hook to the ribs).

And the answer is no, I would just punch, but I don't think the strike is bullshit. Besides, it's possible I might **** up my knuckles in a fight despite them having decent conditioning, in which case I would switch to palms with that hand, rather than be down one weapon. (Even with two healthy hands, I think the uppercut palm version in particular has some really good uses, but tbh, I practice plain vanilla punches 99% of the time, so I probably wouldn't think to use it in the heat of the moment.)

Anyways, I believe the reason it was originally recommended for women's self-defense classes is because they aren't MAists who actually train regularly, so 1) their knuckles won't be conditioned to take the punishment of punching someone bare knuckle 2) their wrists will be weak and punching technique will be off, so good chance their wrists will buckle and get fucked up. Self-defense courses usually being unhelpful aside, I think that logic is sound.

Edit/P.S. Oh, also, as to why RBSD-types seem to like it, being able to hold your hands in an open, non-offensive (even pseudo-cowardly) posture and then strike out with them right from that position seems like a plus for the types of stuff they do.

**ITRY** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 9:25pm

Originally Posted by OZZ

The palm heel thrust's intended target is almost always the head. The chances of bending your fingers back will increase tenfold if you are hitting a heavy bag.
I did seen a palm strike delivered in a street fight on one occasion and it did some nice damage. My fellow bouncer tht evening was the recipient and he had a nice shiner the next day.
Basically, take White Shark's comments a la Bas Rutten to heart. But don't write it off - ever. You land one of those properly and you can easily shatter a cheek bone or orbital bone.
But watch out for those teeth..
Edit:The picture put up by Anna is proper hand formation for a palm strike. Anything else is begging for an injury.

1. Palm fist is good against ribs and heart
2. open hand with fingers almost open is also a proper hand formation. The fingers folded is mainly Japanese way, fingers open is main Chinese way, both work.

**ITRY** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 11:10pm

Here is a way to use palm fist to the ribs. A is when you are ready. In B he jabs and you deflect with a bong sau then in C you switch to a palm strike to the exposed ribs

**mike321** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 11:21pm

In your picture the ribs of Brown are not nearly as exposed as Black's head. Brown can at least retract his right arm. Black is wide open. Plus, why wouldn't Black use his fist to throw the weak strike instead of an open palm to throw the weak strike? (To get back to the point of the thread.)

**Deadmeat** · Posted On: 8/10/2008 11:48pm

If asked, for the sake of discussion (and this is purely hypothetical), to strike an inanimate object like a brick wall as hard as you possibly can, using your hand... would you do so with a closed fist, or with your palm?

Practically speaking, striking a softer target with your fist is, admittedly, likely to do more damage than striking it with the heel of your palm. However, I would suggest that striking a solid surface with your knuckles is more likely to result in an injury to your hand than doing so with your palm. It's really a tradeoff - how much damage do you want your strike to cause vs. how much damage you are potentially willing for your hand to potentially sustain.