The Palm Heel Thrust Discussion Thread

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 9:08am

Now that palm strikes are exhausted in discussion, how about knife hands?

Inner ridge strikes?

and the always useful Double Open Hand Strike "morote zuki (Double Punch) which is actually a hidden technique or secret technique. The real move is actually far more complex and deadly when performed correctly by a trained karateka. t involves not a double punch as in the kata but a double open hand finger strike to just above the nipples which shocks the opponent then rapidly followed by a very forceful palm heel strike to the chest which knocks the wind out of the opponent then follows the third move which is a double open hand palm heel push forcing the opponent away from you. There is also a variation of this secret technique which when performed by an expert in its use will actually cause a heart attack." So be REAL careful practicing this one!!!!

The Spear Hand - at least in this one the guy writes "The Spear Hand Strike is a technique that should only be used by advanced martial arts students under the supervision of an experienced instructor. Always use perfect technique; it is far more important than striking hard. Your fingers are fragile and precious so take care of them." and sez to do finger pushups and such to get strong enough to use spear hand strikes.

or the One Knuckle Strike [img]

Though that skinny bb could probably punch it through my chest...

Of course you don't bring just your hands to a sword fight, do you?

**Craig Jenkins** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 11:45am

I don't understand how a punch with closed fist would have more "power" than a palm strike, assuming they were on the same trajectory. Is the argument that other muscles engage because of the hand position?

If not, are you really talking about the fact that because the knuckles that strike are a smaller area, there is more pressure (force/area)? That makes sense, and fair enough.

But in terms of the damage to the striker, it seems a lot less likely that you will create some sort of compression injury to the wrist with a palm heel than it would be where the line of force is through the relatively small bones of the hand. And that same wrist is behind the fist, so it seems no less likely to incur the wrist injury with a punch (more, if the fist is not properly aligned).

**maofas** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 12:29pm

Fug you forgot the deadly chicken-head, err I mean chicken-wrist.

**ajarnkenzie** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 7:56pm

kintanon,
it's really not that difficult to do but I'm crap at explaining things over the net so I'll leave it that. As for wasting time doing iron palm for a "miracle strike"- I don't train iron palm for 1 technique, I agree that would be a waste of time. I use it to condition my different hand shapes, including the clenched fist, so that when the situation arises when a palm/finger/fist/whatever strike is called for I feel confident that that my hands are conditioned enough so as not to do damage to my self.
You may not agree and that's fine by me, everyone is entitled to their views and opinions, but I think the palm heel thrust can be effective. You can even break the pelvic bone with a well placed strike. Sure, you could probably do this with a normal punch or kick too but that doesn't make palm heel thrusts ineffective. it's just a different tool for the same job and some people prefer them.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 8:10pm

I'm not arguing against palm heel strikes. I'm arguing against your application of them. Using them in place of a closed fist to avoid damage to your hands makes sense. Everything else you've said is so much nonsense...
Especially disabling inner thigh nerve strikes.

**patfromlogan** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 11:56pm

Originally Posted by maofas

Fug you forgot the deadly chicken-head, err I mean chicken-wrist.

How could I have missed it! Heavens, here it is:

Chicken Head Wrist

"A good Karateka (a Karate practitioner) must know not only offensive techniques but defensive or blocking motions too.

Don't you go thinking that you'll be just hitting people left, right and centre without getting touched yourself. You'll get hit. The question is really: how do you react to an attack?

Often it is not necessary to repel a foe with a swift, painful blow.

If a roughneck tries to push his blubbery weight around, smart defensive tactics might make him look awfully silly.

By adroitly blocking his blows, you can deflate any bag of wind.

The Chicken Head Wrist is an excellent blocking position and will make a "turkey" out of many an opponent.

Use it often."

Or perhaps you mean the famous keito uchi, or chicken head strike, which I can't picture because no one in the world of karate as ever been photo'd doing this except Sosai Oyama and it's pdf...

**ajarnkenzie** · Posted On: 5/19/2010 1:03am

nonsense? such as?
just because I mention a technique that in your opinion is not effective, I'm speaking nonsense?
This is why I don't spend much free time on these forums, too many people with chips on their shoulder. This idea of " if you don't agree with me your wrong" is just childish and I can't be bothered with it.

**maofas** · Posted On: 5/19/2010 1:43am

Originally Posted by fug

Or perhaps you mean the famous keito uchi, or chicken head strike, which I can't picture because no one in the world of karate as ever been photo'd doing this except Sosai Oyama and it's pdf...

Yes! That one!

I'll photograph myself doing it if I can wear a paper bag over my head in the picture. You new know when you might want to start a fraudulent mma program and the last thing I need is a picture of me, before I covered myself in tatoos, doing goofy openhand strikes surfacing to ruin me.

Oh wait, found one, but he doesn't look like an Oyama:

I almost typed, "But that's not how I would use it" until I remembered I would never actually use it for anything. Yes, you use your proximal thumb joint as the striking surface. (Actually it's a move to slip RNC under someone's chin if they clamp down to defend. It's in the kata, really.)

P.S. Regarding your previous post, ridgehand/haito isn't that bad. A hook or overhand (depending) usually does the same job but better, but you can hurt someone without hurting yourself which is a lot more than I can say for keito. I don't do overhands, so once in a blue moon I actually will ridgehand someone in the face.

**Kovacs** · Posted On: 5/19/2010 4:10am

Originally Posted by ajarnkenzie

nonsense? such as?
just because I mention a technique that in your opinion is not effective, I'm speaking nonsense?
This is why I don't spend much free time on these forums, too many people with chips on their shoulder. This idea of " if you don't agree with me your wrong" is just childish and I can't be bothered with it.

Relax, he's not having a go at you, he's just disagreeing with you which is part and parcel of being on a forum. If you think the technique is worth using have you got any videos of it being used effectively?