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  1. fxyrslf is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 10:05pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks - some good insights for lefties.

    It is annoying that even some v. experienced coaches pay no attention to the fact that you're southpaw and just tell your partner to switch, pair you up with the other southpaw in the group or just seem slightly annoyed that things work differently for you rather than give effective pointers. See my pad holding thread for a further moan.

    Is the jab really a far less effective punch this way?
  2. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 11:25pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A lot of pro boxers work the jab very well, i'm not saying it is useless.. just that compared to an orthodox match it is not nearly as important. The potential targets, payoff, risk and the opportunity cost are not really worth it. For example, last night at the battle of the beachside Yoshi (southpaw) used at most 4 jabs in his title defence. He threw at least 10 straight, left roundhouse to the rear leg combos though :), going to train this some more next week.

    No idea what a corkscrew hit is Engali but yes, lead hooks are very good. Versus an orthodox fighter who is using a lot of jabs you can really hammer home the 'slip to the right, lead hook, straight, knee/kick combo. '

    selfcritical: I have no idea about Cung Lee, but i think there are other reasons to go southpaw in mma matches and have your strong leg forward, a lot of top players seem to do this. I am not trained in most take downs since i train MT, but i'd be willing to add a section on this if someone wants to write it.

    Fuzzy: I don't use the spinning backfist myself mate, my showboating move is the flying karate push kick. I could see it being useful though, the range is right.

    Oh and i don't think my hand is broken (yay), i've nearly got full range of motion back for the hand now and it is no longer painful except when i clench my fist. I really should see a doctor but i've been putting it off. It is a ligament damaged on the middle finger near the nuckle i believe, will go see a doctor Monday to see. If it is fine within a week i'll be able to make John Wayne Parr's amateur day early September.
    Last edited by Sang; 8/09/2008 7:03am at .
  3. Nemesai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/09/2008 10:11pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Southpaw Jab is his best tool just like the righty's jab is his best tool, in boxing.

    I don't know anything about non-boxing, but if the righties in your sport don't have left hooks to the body, then I can understand you leaving it out. But in boxing, the left hook the body was the punch I most looked out for as a southpaw. Having my liver up front is a sure disadvantage than back behind my rear elbow, as righties do.

    You probably shouldnt watch winky wright videos, he has abnormal arm lengths, making him able to cover his head and body very easily with unusual shell style. Watch pernell whitaker, hector camacho, and maybe zab judah to see good use of the jab from a southpaw.

    Also as a southpaw, you eat right hands straight on the mouth/nose, or right hooks that turn your head over your right shoulder, but that's stuff you get use to taking/avoiding.
  4. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/11/2008 8:25am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aye i boxed longer than i've trained MT so i figured out how to use the jab. Unfortunately it doesn't transfer very well to MT southpaw fighting. I didn't leave out the weakness of right hooks to our body, check the part on fighting southpaws.
  5. UpayaFist is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 4:08pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Context???

    Hey,

    Just wanted to throw something I was thinking about out there. A lot of the tactics, strategies, and tips in this guide are coming from a boxing/Thai boxing cotext. It's defiintely makes the most sense to draw from these contexts because that is the majority of the striking we find today in full-contact and/or MMA fights.

    My question is about where the limits are as far as this advice is concerned. Consider what was said about the Southpaw's Jab--pretty much worthless against an orthodox fighter because the opponenet's lead left hand will be in the way. While that makes perfect sense in boxing and thai boxing because of the large, 16oz gloves, does that still hold up as well when we're talking about a 4oz glove or bareknuckle context? It seems like the smaller the glove(or no glove at all), the greater chance for the Spouthpaw's Jab to sneak its way between or around the orthodox opponent's guard.

    To illustrate my point, consider a strat that has not translated so well from boxing to MMA because of glove size: covering up and absorbing shots. By this I mean how in boxing sometimes a boxer will place his gloves on his brow/forehead, hunker down, and try to outlast an opponent's flurry of punches. In boxing this works pretty well because of the large amount of cover and impact absorption the 16oz gloves provide. While this CAN work in MMA(especially if you add in some forearm action ala CM defense) I've seen it fail hard when the attacker slows down long enough to see the inevitable openings and pick his shots. The 4oz gloves allow his hands to sneak through the defender's guard.

    So do you still feel the same way about the Southpaw Jab when we're talking MMA or barenuckle?
    Last edited by UpayaFist; 8/26/2008 4:10pm at .
  6. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 6:51pm


     Style: MMA, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can see where you are coming from, i haven't trained mma or with 4oz gloves so take everything i say after this with a grain of salt. Even with big gloves on you usually don't just let your glove take the jab, instead you deflect it to the side right before it hits which is pretty easy to do since it is a very small distance to move your hand. This shouldn't change with mma gloves.

    I'll tell you why i love it when people jab at me in MT and you'll see that it translates to mma too. When a jab is coming at a southpaw you can parry it with your lead hand, then come straight over the top of it with a straight left and add a right leg kick or hook+straight to this. Or you can parry the jab to your left and come through with a rear knee to the body.

    Both of these responses are power hits and extremely basic skills for a southpaw (akin to catching a jab with your left and shooting your own jab for an orthodox fighter). You do not want to eat a straight to the nose everytime you jab, there is nothing about small gloves which would stop this from working. This is the reason my coach tells me to put my left hand in front of my nose/mouth everytime i jab instead of the orthodox way of besides the jaw.

    So to answer your question, yes i do feel the same way about the southpaw jab under mma rules, worth throwing though as long as you understand the risks. Probably a good idea to reinterate at this stage that this guide is for relatively new lefty strikers. There is a wealth of information not included in this guide about southpaw tricks which good amateurs and pro fighters figure out for themselves with experience.

    Edit: can also step to the right and plant a rear roundhouse across their body when they jab or even on the legs, there are seriously far too many awesome things you can do against an opponent who likes to jab. Anyone know some good ones for when they throw the straight? all i know is to catch it and fire back a jab or lead hook or to move and plant a right roundhouse on their lead leg, no-where near as good as the ones off their jab.
    Last edited by Sang; 8/26/2008 9:59pm at .
  7. Nemesai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 8:57pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang
    This is the reason my coach tells me to put my left hand in front of my nose/mouth everytime i jab instead of the orthodox way of besides the jaw.

    So to answer your question, yes i do feel the same way about the southpaw jab under mma rules, worth throwing though as long as you understand the risks. Probably a good idea to reinterate at this stage that this guide is for relatively new lefty strikers. There is a wealth of information not included in this guide about southpaw tricks which good amateurs and pro fighters figure out for themselves with experience.
    edit: the quote is to bring it forward as good info, the following is for the post prior to sang's

    The good thing about being a southpaw is you're usually more aware of these tricks than your ortho opponent. It would usually be me palming their jab, and throwing a straight down the pipe right after. Or I'd throw a jab, and turn inside their counter 2, and follow with a 2 while theirs is returning home.

    Again boxing is my thing, but there are so many ways to make a jab work, these mostly have to do with someone's innate ability to think on the spot. Throw a jab, they palm or parry it downward. So immediately you feint a jab, they make the same parry motion, and you pop them over the top of their knuckles, then another jab immediately while they're out of position. Lefty's will practice so many angles to come with that jab, like coming from low with an up-jab, straight up to their nose and splitting their guard to get there.

    Most southpaws will circle to the right, making our straight out jab shoot behind their glove, more near their ear. Same shot is open to the body. Then take a step left while they're trying to catch you moving right, for that moment you have them squared, shoot a 2 straight to the body or head.


    I'd say the most annoying thing in this regard is someone who is good at fighting for that jab position, but they usually have to be experienced against southpaws. Then it just comes down to who is more clever, and more determined to make that jab work for them. Both guys eat jabs simultaneously until one doesnt want to sacrifice. But that decision to stop jabbing is more subconcious than anything. Like he said above, if you jab and eat a two over and over, you sort of stop throwing the jab. The more aware you become of this, the more you can take advantage of it.
    Last edited by Nemesai; 9/04/2008 12:37pm at .
  8. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/30/2008 11:36am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whoa, intense article. I don't know two things about striking (There's a .gif somewhere of me at a TD trying to block a Thai kick to the head with a karate downwards arm-block) but nevertheless this was an interesting read. I enjoy watching boxing and whenever a southpaw comes out the announcers go "Oooh! A Lefty" which makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside (being a lefty) but I never really thought "But WHY is it weird?".

    I know in Judo left sided grips is considered very annoying (Why I love them so much) and can throw a person's game off (get it? Throw?) but never understood the footwork aspect of the striking southpaw.

    Oh, and when I went to Thailand to visit fam I noticed a lot of them were lefties (none of them box, but it's still something)
  9. lt_flippy is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2008 12:34am


     Style: Dirty

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is some very enlightening stuff... now I wanna go find a lefty to train with.
  10. AlienGunfighter is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2008 3:55pm


     Style: Krav Maga (4), BJJ white

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a 'cock-handed' person, I say thanks for the info. During anyall of my first lessons at everything, all but one of my instructors would look at me and say, "switch your stance, you're backwards."
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