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  1. KITAmaru is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 3:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD, FMA, Sub. Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    What MMA people train vs. what bodybuilders train, usage of protein, and more.

    Okay, what the hell.
    Basically I've picked up training again for several months, 6 days a week, doing weight training on days 1, 3 and 5 (a full body workout), and bagwork then cardio / MMA class on days 2, 4 and 6. I've read a lot of the threads regarding conditioning on this site, as well as many MMA and bodybuilding sites / articles. I am now officially freaking confused, as I haven't lifted weights since early highschool, where they told me that one max rep is most important. More importantly, I'm eating a LOT more, the composition of which I'll get to later.

    And that because someone is a physical trainer doesn't mean they know what the *&#$% they're talking about, I guess, since everybody says something different, even with all of them spouting the whole 'different body types must take different approaches' kinda thing with the ectomorphs, endomorphs and mesos.




    1.) First, regarding high reps x low weight versus low reps x high weight. Which is better for an MMA fighter? I'm not training to become one or anything, it's just the build I'm most interested in. I've increased about 2" on my arms so far and it made me feel really good, as I've been working by increasing the weight by 5lbs. every week and the physical changes are apparent. I was under the impression that the more you can lift, with 1.5-2 minute breaks in between most sets and supersets, the bigger you'll get. Most of the bodybuilding sites I went to told me the same thing.

    When I Google the question, the general consensus was that high weight x low reps will make you bigger and stronger; whereas low weight x high reps is basically just cardio and may even decrease your muscle. There was ANOTHER site with a trainer guy who said that high weight x low reps may increase your strength 'neurologically', but low weight x high reps is better and will make you bigger.

    ...
    I hate the Internet sometimes.

    Anyway, Randy Couture wrote an article in which he said that low to moderate weight x high, high reps is best for an MMA fighter, cause you want to be able to throw a punch with the same amount of power from the first time you throw it to the 100th time you throw it, or something to that effect. He recalls going to the gym and working with a 105lb. barbell, with the meatheads chuckling under their breath at him (but not to his face, obviously), and doing a massive amount of reps in 6 supersets total--where one bodybuilder decided to give it a try and puked at the 4th set. Because MMA fights may get drawn out, he stressed the importance of being able to handle the duration and even talked about how he didn't really get tired during the fight with Tito.

    Here I have been doing high weight with low reps (about 8-12 reps a set), 3-4 sets, 1 minute of rest in between every set. I'm probably going to do one kind for one week, and one for the other... but in the end, I'll probably take an MMA fighter's advice over a bodybuilder's, even though gaining size was certainly appealing to me.

    2.) Protein. Yes, I've read the other threads in which this was discussed. I read several different bodybuilding programs in which you need to take about 1 gram of protein for every pound of bodyweight; that's what I'm doing currently. Some more extreme ones say 2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight--others will go for a 'protein deprivation day' like what some athletes do with carbs and then load up x 3 the two weeks after.

    Right now, I can't really tell what kind of 'morph' I am. Since my metabolism works pretty fast and I had stayed relatively skinny, I figured I was an ectomorph, but I had been putting on muscle (not using steroids) faster than I had thought, so I don't know. I'm following Hugo Rivera's suggested ectomorph's diet of 40% carbs, 40% protein, and 20% fat. Other programs that said to double up on the protein for every pound of bodyweight, also suggested eating considerably less carbs or 'you will never gain mass'--whereas the one I'm on now says that depleting yourself of carbs will ruin your energy for workouts. A lot of MMA articles written by fighters, on the other hand, assert the need for carbs and more importantly, greens as they have an alkaline nature to counteract the acidic nature of workouts (don't ask me, Randy said it).

    I used to go by 'too much of anything can be bad for you', so I'm sticking to the somewhat-more-balanced option for now until I can get a good opinion backed up by empirical evidence.

    What style do you train and what reasoning exists behind it? Did you get it from an e-article, a magazine, a book, a purchased program / DVD? Or by your instructors?
  2. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 4:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm no expert, but I would think a body builder's routine would probably be entirely the wrong thing to do.

    There are a few posters here who really know their **** when it comes to this kind of thing, hopefully they'll spot this thread and give you some real advice.
  3. KITAmaru is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 4:34pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD, FMA, Sub. Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    I'm no expert, but I would think a body builder's routine would probably be entirely the wrong thing to do.

    There are a few posters here who really know their **** when it comes to this kind of thing, hopefully they'll spot this thread and give you some real advice.
    Well yeah, I'd rather take Captain America's advice over a meathead (some random bodybuilder 3x protein no carbs guy) who may not have ever been in the cage before... I guess you could say I was torn between being strong via technique (rotation, step-in, etc) and condition versus new bulk and size (which my newfound gains impressed me, but only visually really). Because a lot of sites say differently, I want to find out what other people trained and what reasoning they had behind it.
    Last edited by KITAmaru; 8/06/2008 4:40pm at .
  4. Munacra is offline
    Munacra's Avatar

    I Ducked Out on a Gong Sau

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 4:55pm


     Style: Gentleman Adventurer

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Get Ross Emanait's books.
  5. KITAmaru is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 5:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD, FMA, Sub. Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I really think it was just a serious n00b episode I've been having recently. Before when I trained, I really didn't care about muscle size all that much, I just learned the techniques, sparred, drilled, and conditioned. Now I somehow feel that weight training is real important, but probably I just got the wrong idea and felt that I was supposed to do it for size and one max rep.

    Some of the exercises I had started to use thanks to previous member suggestions, such as some of Ross's workouts, are great and can be killer on the pain threshold. Considerably more challenging to me than lifting a heavy weight 8-12 times and then resting for a minute and a half.
  6. Little Lamb is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 9:26pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You have a bunch of questions rolled up in your original post. I would break it down and try some searches. There are some very knowledgeable men who post fitness advice to this board. I'm sure I've seen some of your sub-questions addressed several times.
  7. snowman is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    8/06/2008 10:12pm


     Style: sadness and tears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You cycle your strength training for:

    Explosive
    Maximal
    and
    Endurance

    Theres no one consistent good way, your body will adapt and you will have to change up to keep getting results

    It's good to do heavy low reps/maxs
    It's good to do light / medium high reps
    It's good to do explosive / intense reps
    It's good to do bodyweight and polymetric exercises
    It's good to do all these with compound movements
  8. andrewa is online now

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2008 7:00am


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Read this article http://www.t-nation.com/article/spor...ed_fighter&cr=

    The author (Chad Waterbury) is the strength coach for Rickson Gracie's guys.
  9. BudoMonkey is offline
    BudoMonkey's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2008 7:16am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman
    You cycle your strength training for:

    Explosive
    Maximal
    and
    Endurance

    Theres no one consistent good way, your body will adapt and you will have to change up to keep getting results

    It's good to do heavy low reps/maxs
    It's good to do light / medium high reps
    It's good to do explosive / intense reps
    It's good to do bodyweight and polymetric exercises
    It's good to do all these with compound movements

    That's what I do. I compete currently in sanshou, working to have my first MMA fight next year and in the past I've fought in boxing and muay thai.

    Some days I am trying to get my max benchpress up or do squats or something, and the next day I'm doing 10 rounds of supersets with hundreds of pullups and dips and whatnot until I want to hurl and my muscles feel like they are on fire. Just keep mixing it up, man. Look up some articles on muscle confusion. Try to vary your workouts as much as possible. Why do just one?

    Or, just do the www.crossfit.com daily excercises.
    "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

    Quote Originally Posted by Squerlli
    And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry ************... Budo monkeh.
  10. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    8/07/2008 7:26am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately, there is no "good" answer to your overarching question. Which I think is: "What should I be doing?"

    I have been an MMA competitor, with a good quality fight team, and we had a strength coach. Basically we were told to do everything. Literally.

    Some weeks it was low weight/high reps, (often in a circuit) for exactly the reasons Randy does it.

    Other weeks it was maximum explosive power workouts (heavy weights, very few reps).

    Other weeks it was pure endurance, etc. There is no one, perfect workout philosophy for MMA athletes, because the discipline is so eclectic.

    I recommend you come up with three workouts, each catered toward a specific physical goal. Then I would cycle them every 4-6 weeks. In a year, all your physical attributes will be much better!
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
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