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  1. John A Butz is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Various JMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Besides, all aspects of the market have always been cyclical. Always, with no exceptions. Anytime something stays on the top for too long, the inevitable crash is all the worse.

    The nature of the market is flucation. As our imports become more attractive to foreign purchasers, our currency will become more powerful, and in order to counter that, the other countries will lower their prices, to keep foriegn dollars out, and our response will be...

    round and round the economy goes...
  2. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:39am

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Americans also dont NEED half the shiit they own. We buy useless shiit each and every year that we never use and eventually throw out.

    All the new jobs created are extremely low wage jobs that nobody can support themselves on.

    Also, unemployment figures do not account for the MILLIONS of people whos unemployment RUNS OUT and can no longer collect OR the people who have just stopped looking.

    And as far as jobs being added, every assoc press stated that rate of job growth was LOWER than expected and STILL is. The Euro has posted higher for the 6th straught trading session. Remeber it was MILLIONS who lost jobs because of "downsizing" and companies abandoning American workers for cheap overseas labor. How any American would stand by that tyoe of behavior and call themselves patriotic is beyond me.

    This is from THIS MONTH and a little more in depth than Jamokes short and not very informative quote:

    The latest estimate of gross domestic product (GDP), released last month, showed growth in the three months to September hit an annualised rate of 8.2% - the fastest rate for nearly two decades.

    And October's jobs growth figure had raised hopes that the so-called "jobless recovery" was a myth.

    "It drives the point home that the strong economic growth we're seeing is not accompanied by any respectable employment growth," said Anthony Karydakis, senior financial economist at Banc One Capital Markets.

    "It highlights the predicament of the economic recovery in this phase - very strong GDP growth, not much employment growth."

    The Labor Department figures showed most of the gains to the non-farm payrolls figure came from the service sector.

    But the manufacturing sector continued to shed jobs, losing 17,000 posts during the month.
    Now we have Bush giving the drug companies a windfall for their support.....just like hes done to all the other industries that gave him money when he ran. American seniors, like my mother, still cant import medicine from Canada even the FDA ADMITS it cannot find ONE CASE of death from Canadian medicine.

    Far better to let our citizens take helpful drugs like Zoloft and other experimentals which announce on TV that the possible side effects, among others, include stroke, and heart problems. THOSE are perfectly safe I suppose.

    Oh and the COST of this medicare bill? $400 billion. But dont trust ME thats our deficit is fukked to high hell, take it from Goldman Sachs:

    Even some of Bush's fellow conservatives have questioned the price tag of the reforms, which come at a time when next year's budget deficit is projected to be some $500 billion. "The U.S. budget is out of control," Goldman Sachs economists said last month.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  3. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you read all the side effects of alcohol, you wouldn't think it was safe either...
  4. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:50am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As a side note, who do you think has done more for the world Mother Teresa or Bill Gates.... That is an interesting discussion....
    You're kidding right? Bill Gates created something that was in no way necessary to the world. Its a LUXURY.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  5. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:54am

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its really interesting to me to see how people respond to reports of a failing U.S. economy. In any other field you would have discussion about how to make it better or questions as to WHY its getting bad and WHY things arent working. Only when it somes to phony patriotism do you have people doing exactly the OPPOSITE of what patriotism was intended for and close their eyes to the fact that there just might be a problem going on. Funny.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  6. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:54am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Peedee,
    I am not behind the Bush Admin's economic policy. To me the issue of global trade and outsourcing of labor has more to do with establishing international labor standards and locally based minimum wage rates through the WTO, simply to prevent exploitative labor outsourcing.

    But manufacturing jobs are tenuous by nature. Protect them, and in they'll all be gone in five years with further gains in productivity and automation.

    In fact, productivity gains which resulted in job loss also allowed an increase in worker wages across the board.

    I think your political convictions are heart-driven, but your grasp of the economics of trade is tenuous. And your argument is all over the place. Is it trade? Job loss? Economic figures being spun? Pharmaceutical industry? I feel differently about all of these things.

    For example, I think the direct marketing of prescription drugs to Americans is disgusting. Companies are trying to create a direct demand that bypasses the medical practitioner, which causes people to just shop around for a doctor that will give them a drug they've already decided they need.

    But drug pricing is more complicated. Drug prices in Canada are low because there is effectively one byer. The Canadian health care system. Monopsonies are hardly healthy for R&D. Basically, American markets are subsidizing low prices for the Canadians.

    How can any American advocate downsizing and labor outsourcing and still call themselves patriotic? Once again, pricing. Learn it, live it, love it.
    Last edited by The Wastrel; 12/08/2003 11:58am at .
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  7. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 11:57am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its really interesting to me to see how people respond to reports of a failing U.S. economy. In any other field you would have discussion about how to make it better or questions as to WHY its getting bad and WHY things arent working. Only when it somes to phony patriotism do you have people doing exactly the OPPOSITE of what patriotism was intended for and close their eyes to the fact that there just might be a problem going on. Funny.
    What on earth are you talking about? A devalued currency does not equal a failing economy. The Fed lowered the interest rate in order to encourage short-term spending and investment. Loss of manufacturing jobs does not mean an economy is failing. China lost something like 14 million manufacturing jobs since 1993, but wait I though they were getting all of ours? Or is it productivity gains that caused job shrinkage?

    Peedee, as a liberal, how do you feel about a vanishing log industry? Do you argue we should be protecting those jobs? Or should we be protecting the jobs of Ne England fisherman whose generations of overfishing are depleting ocean resources?
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 12:05pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For example, I think the direct marketing of prescription drugs to Americans is disgusting. Companies are trying to create a direct demand that bypasses the medical practitioner, which causes people to just shop around for a doctor that will give them a drug they've already decided they need.
    Tell me about it man. I'd love to do a study on this to see just how many drug addicts we have in this country. We have people addicted to everything from Seconal to valium to the the KING of perscription junk: Vicodan.

    Everyone in this country is on some form of mind altering substance or labelled officially "mentally unstable" in the form of depression, anxiety, panic attacks, eating disorders, ADD, ADHD, Schizophrenic, Bi-Polar....

    Why do you think it is that we have an entire nation of nut jobs?

    This question matters man, because I dont know how young you are but if you ever associate with younger people you'll know that our nations future is in the fukking TOILET, sorry to say.

    Have you ever read some ADS for Zoloft and some of the other criminal substances that the drug companies get rich off? Scary shiit man. One ad says:

    Is she just shy?

    Or does she have SOCIAL ANXIETY DISORDER?

    [size=3]ZOLOFT[/size=3] NOW indicated for Social Anxiety Disorder
    SOCIAL FUKKING ANXIETY DISORDER?

    The people where I live are a little more apt to show our independence than most I guess. We recently kicked the Republican county exec out and replaced him. Now the new guy is basically all for giving the middle finger to the FDA and importing Canadian drugs for our seniors.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  9. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 12:11pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not a liberal man, I'm the saem as 90% of the country: Liberal on social issues, conservative on economic ones in MOST CASES.

    I live in Long Island which was one of the greatest places for Fisherman in the world man. It got FUKKED by big business and overfishing. All so stores can have an overabundance of fish that eventually ROT on their stands. Alot of people lost their way of life because of this. Pollution and industrialization has killed off ALOT of wildlife where I live. Everyone here knows it, its obvious. Its also obvious that you cannot RAPE a finite resource. One day there will be no more, its fact. Its called OVER fishing for a reason.

    I wasn't talking about YOU when it came to patriotism. I was just making a remark that in any other field when things are going wrong you have honest assesments and evaluations. Only when it comes to questioning U.S. economic policy do you have people that stick their fingers in their ears and hum "USA!".
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  10. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    12/08/2003 12:12pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The people where I live are a little more apt to show our independence than most I guess. We recently kicked the Republican county exec out and replaced him. Now the new guy is basically all for giving the middle finger to the FDA and importing Canadian drugs for our seniors.
    Well, that sounds great, but what happens when drug companies can't make enough money to remain profitable? You think they're going to dump money into R&D when people scream about paying for drugs. American markets are subsidizing Canadian policies. We pay higher prices because of things like Canadian health care.

    Man, my dad's a veterinarian...I can only imagine what it's like for people at pharmacies and hospitals. People want to pay 35,000 that they don't have for an SUV, but goddamanit they ain't paying for anything they actually NEED!

    I am NOT subsidizing that bullshit. Old people in the States should have mountains of cash. **** man, I know they get a fat wad of mine every month in that Ponzi scheme called Social Security.

    As far as I'm concerned, the problem with Americans is spending and saving. I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. We have health care in this country. It's called "LOW PRICES". If people here had the brains to save anywhere near as much as the rest of the world does, they could afford to actually pay for things that come up unexpectedly. People shouldn't need insurance for the fucking flu. Cancer, yes.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
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