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  1. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2008 11:01pm

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    Assuming that you're using the common definition where "complex carbohydrate" means more saccharide groups than "simple carbohydrate", the best research I've seen (see this post) suggests that that's often not the case.*

    Consider that amylopectin is usually larger than amylose (at least, if you believe Wikipedia), which is many times larger than lactose (a disaccharide). However, rice that is proportionally higher in amylose (and thereby lower in amylopectin) induces a lower glycemic response than amylopectin-rich rice (see this study), and both amylose and amylopectin have a higher glycemic index than the equivalent mass of lactose (see link to the insulin thread in first paragraph).

    As I think I postulated in that post, my armchair-gastroenterologist explanation for this is that the amylase in your saliva starts breaking down the starches into glucose almost immediately (did you ever do the old "put a soda cracker on your tongue and wait for it to turn sweet" experiment?), whereas the metabolism of lactose relies on lactase in the stomach, and the extra step of metabolizing galactose (half of the lactose molecule) requires yet more time. When you're getting your lactose from milk, there's also the delayed gastric dumping from casein curdling upon contact with stomach acid and the insulin response triggered by whey to think about, but that's getting grey and fuzzy.

    Now, if you're talking about dietary fiber, it is digested more slowly - given that it's not digested until fermentation in the large intestine (if then), it'll take longer to arrive and thus be digested. I also remember reading in one of my mom's old nutrition books that when you have other nutrients encased in fiber (specifically, protein in brown beans), they may be incompletely absorbed by the small intestine, where the component that isn't absorbed doesn't add to your effective nutrient and calorie totals.




    * EDIT: To be clear, though, I'm not a nutritionist, and this is just based on what I've looked at so far. These may be exceptions to a trend, and I may be missing something.
    Last edited by TheRuss; 8/05/2008 11:11pm at .
  2. Nemesai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 5:02pm


     Style: Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I mix a gallon of gatorade, 2 quarts of lemonade, a jug of cranberry, a jug of v8 splash. Between the four of those and water I don't feel the need for any other drink. I just pour in a mix of what looks good and it does me right. But I also eat a serving of wheat pasta and 3-4 raw eggs a day. And a wheat bagle, and wheat bread with mayo/chicken on it. And some type of fruit an hour before workout.

    It's nice to have a soda at a restaurant once in awhile, but no reason to go back down the 12 pack in the fridge path when there arent any benefits.
  3. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 5:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    I mix a gallon of gatorade, 2 quarts of lemonade, a jug of cranberry, a jug of v8 splash.
    Could you do me a favour? Add up the calories and macronutrients for that, and let me know what they come out as. Better yet, do that for your entire daily food intake.
  4. Asriel is offline
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    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 5:23pm

    supporting member
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Could you do me a favour? Add up the calories and macronutrients for that, and let me know what they come out as. Better yet, do that for your entire daily food intake.
    I am looking forward to seeing the Sugar content...
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp

  5. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    8/12/2008 5:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I usually just do total carbohydrates and then add up the fiber as well, but yeah, basically.
  6. Raining_Blood is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 6:08am


     Style: Wrestling, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Read the Anabolic Solution to learn how to structure a low carb diet
  7. Nemesai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 10:22am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss
    Could you do me a favour? Add up the calories and macronutrients for that, and let me know what they come out as. Better yet, do that for your entire daily food intake.
    If you listen to your body then you don't need to monitor your intake.

    I've been at 145-155 for years at 70", but I also excersize most every day. I made the drop to 141 at the end of July for a Tourny. Actually I was down to 138.4, which was the lightest I've been since finishing puberty. (I'm 27 next month)


    You guys overthink this too much. There's no way for me to count daily what I eat, because I always have a drink in hand, and I eat as soon as I'm hungry. But I eat good things, and have energy to train hard because of my diet.

    If you're having trouble being lean, it's certainly not because you're eating what I suggested above. Considering my build at 152, which is to say, no fat to spare, and that I could make it all the way down to 141 in a day or two by sweating it out, it's hard for me to believe anyone saying they can't make weight.

    My rule is basically: no soda, no fastfood, brown carbs instead of white. 2-4 raw eggs

    It shouldn't be much harder than that.
  8. fedeykin is offline

    Village of Idiocy Resident

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 10:48am


     Style: Dead Lemur Style

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    this might have been discussed before, but..
    whats the benefit of raw eggs?
  9. Nemesai is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 11:03am


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    Quote Originally Posted by fedeykin
    this might have been discussed before, but..
    whats the benefit of raw eggs?

    something like 17 different ammino acids, good protein and quality fat.


    I started drinking them a couple years ago, but now I crave for them if I dont get them for breakfast for a couple of days. I usually drink one post workout as well.

    After awhile I stopped blowing money on themogenics ripped kits because I could see the results so much faster on just eggs, for so much cheaper.

    I've tried to convince a few friends who try to workout here and there to take them instead of alternatives. But even though I could out perform them in everyway, lifting more even though I weighed 50-80 pounds less, they wouldnt listen to me about anything workout/food related. I mostly just do body weight excersizes, push/pull/sit ups, bag work run/rope. I'm excited to see the results I will gain now that I don't have to restrict my weight to 152, and so focused weight training.

    Salmonella in eggs is a myth. I must've drank several thousand eggs by now. Only sick chickens lay sick eggs. Buy them from somewhere reputable and you won't have any problems.
  10. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/13/2008 11:11am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    If you listen to your body then you don't need to monitor your intake.
    Even if this is true, I can't listen to your body. You could start keeping a food diary for your own benefit, and I'd say that you should, but what I'm asking you to do is give full disclosure for everyone else's benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    You guys overthink this too much.
    *deep breath*

    No. I don't. I'm not sure why you would say something like that, either. I believe that discussing training and nutrition is what this forum is for, and that the more thought that goes into someone's posts, the better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    There's no way for me to count daily what I eat, because I always have a drink in hand, and I eat as soon as I'm hungry.
    This is misleading. Fundamentally, all you have to know is how much food you had at the start of the day, add how much food you acquired during the day, and then subtract how much food you had left at the end of the day. Before + during - after = consumed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    If you're having trouble being lean, it's certainly not because you're eating what I suggested above. Considering my build at 152, which is to say, no fat to spare, and that I could make it all the way down to 141 in a day or two by sweating it out, it's hard for me to believe anyone saying they can't make weight.
    Frankly, if I were to eat what you suggested above, I would be shedding muscle mass like there's no tomorrow. And I'm not trying to make weight - I'm trying to optimize my body composition while getting most of what I need to train.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesai
    My rule is basically: no soda, no fastfood, brown carbs instead of white. 2-4 raw eggs

    It shouldn't be much harder than that.
    1) Again, add up what you're getting from your Gatorade/lemonade/cranberry/V8 splash punch, and compare it to pop.
    2) If you're going to make recommendations, anyone who posts here can - and should - ask for evidence to support said recommendations. And "it worked for me", while better than the alternative, is ancedotal. By itself, it's not enough to indicate that it will work for anyone else.
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