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  1. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    7/27/2008 11:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Did Yoshida just tap someone out with a scarfhold?

    The fight in question, Hidehiko Yoshida vs Maurice Smith:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]i0xaHkHnRKg
    According to Sherdog, Yoshida won the fight by "neck crank." To me, it looks a lot like a particularly deep scarfhold.
    Is it even possible to crank the neck by digging your weight in and lifting the head in a scarfhold? I know that position is really fuckin' uncomfortable, and puts a lot of pressure on the diaphram making it hard to breathe, but... a neck crank? Really?
  2. Minami no Kaze is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 3:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Nowadays Enshin & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's possible. Pulling far enough upwards strains the base of the neck where it connects to the shoulders, and it's not out of the question to add a twisting motion to it. There were a few early MMA fights where people tapped from a kesa gatame, but it could have been from just plain discomfort/pain.
  3. Grappler is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 4:27am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Big guys can tap newbies with can openers. I suppose it's possible to tap someone with scarfhold.
  4. Vector is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 6:31am


     Style: Yoshukai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As embarrassing as it is to admit, my first night rolling I got tapped with a scarfhold. The guy was killing my wind and I wasn't used to it. The worst part, and what really made me tap, was that his gi was completely blocking my mouth and nose. Just about passed out. I can't really tell from the vid, but that may have been what happened here.
  5. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 7:36am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Grappler
    Big guys can tap newbies with can openers. I suppose it's possible to tap someone with scarfhold.
    It's a neck crank, not scarfhold, and it's a legit technique and not something that relies on muscling or something that compresses the diaphragm. It's why in Judo you aren't allowed to link hands when holding someone in kesa unless they have an arm in.
  6. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 8:03am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    It's a neck crank, not scarfhold, and it's a legit technique and not something that relies on muscling or something that compresses the diaphragm. It's why in Judo you aren't allowed to link hands when holding someone in kesa unless they have an arm in.
    So by linking his hands and pulling up on the head, he was getting a can opener-style neck crank?
    Are their tutorials on how to do this anywhere?
  7. Holy Moment is online now
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 10:12am

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     Style: Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used to noob-tap other noobs in submission wrestling with that, except I think I used quite a bit of muscle in it. I thought it was a side-choke (< LOL).

    This was Mark Coleman's favorite move back in the day, and I've seen it used by other MMA fighters, like Tito Ortiz when he fought Yuki Kondo. James Thompson actually attempted it against Kimbo Slice.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    So by linking his hands and pulling up on the head, he was getting a can opener-style neck crank?
    Are their tutorials on how to do this anywhere?
    Ken Shamrock actually put it in his newer book:


    Chin-to-Chest Choke

    When you have head and arm control in the side mount position and have gone for the key lock, the straight arm bar, and the side choke, yet none of them have worked, try the chin to chest choke. Although it's more of a smother than a choke, it can be quite effective, especially if you have some strength. Some people might consider it a low percentage move, but when Mark Coleman applied it to Dan Severn in UFC 12, held on February 12, 1997, it caused Severn so much discomfort that he tapped his hand in submission even though the championship belt was riding on the line.

    1. I have head and arm control in the side mount position. I'm trapping Jason's head underneath my right arm by grabbing on to my right thigh with my right hand, and I'm gripping his right triceps muscle just above his elbow with my left hand.

    2. Posting my right leg out in front of me, I grab my left forearm with my right hand.

    3. To lock in the submission, I lean my weight back into Jason's sternum while pulling up on his head with both arms. This forces Jason's chin to touch his chest, not only causing him a great deal of pain, but also obstructing his ability to breath.
  8. Raging Monkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 10:13am


     Style: BJJ, JJJ and JKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That is a basic submission technique in the Shooto syllabus actually.
  9. Minami no Kaze is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 2:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Nowadays Enshin & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^^^
    Interesting.
    Any sources where I could find the Shooto syllabus? Thanks!
  10. Raging Monkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 3:22pm


     Style: BJJ, JJJ and JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hrmmm... I have been out of the Shooto loop for a loooong time.

    I am pretty sure the books by Yuri Nakamura are out of print to be honest, but you can always look online for them used.

    Here is a link to the first in the series - http://www.budovideos.com/shop/custo...cat=303&page=1

    The picture on the cover is on of several locks from kesagatame using a neck crank in addition to the base lock being applied.
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