222494 Bullies, 4191 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 11 to 19 of 19
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. RaiNnyX4 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sapporo
    Posts
    662

    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 8:49pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by noonyez
    Even if failed submission attempts don't cause damage the fighter is trying to finish the fight and that should score more points than surviving submissions attempts.
    Everything else equal, it would. But if the other guy had landed a few solid strikes in the round while the other guy had only attempted a million (failed) submissions, I would most likely give the round to the striker.
  2. Domite is offline
    Domite's Avatar

    blotter art.

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn, NYC
    Posts
    1,529

    Posted On:
    7/28/2008 8:57pm


     Style: San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah. In your example, a nice combo and a takedown should be worth more than 3-4 failed sub attempts.
  3. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986

    Posted On:
    7/29/2008 8:23am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    And in fact, we all know that a failed submission attempt can actually wear out the guy going for the hold more than the guy defending.
    It can do, as in the failed Triangle of Death attempt, but generally the guy who has to escape the sub/bottom position has to work a lot harder. They're on the receiving end of the leverage. And frankly, even with the failed Triangle of Death attempts, being stuck inside a triangle that's nearly on may cramp their legs to kingdom come, but it takes a hell of a lot out of you too. (Being stuck in a triangle that's not even nearly on won't, but if you're playing with decent grapplers, they shouldn't be squeezing for dear life when the triangle isn't aligned right).

    You're talking as though it's always the case that the sub attempt takes more out of the would-be subber than the escaper, and it just doesn't seem to me to be that common a case among BJJ blues or better. Certainly, when I'm fighting someone I can dominate, they tend to gas well before I do even when they are by any normal standard ridiculously fitter than I am, just as I tend to gas before my instructor does when I'm fighting him.

    If we're even bringing this up, we could also mention that people break hands from punching. I'm sure you'd regard this as a ridiculous reason for taking punching out of the scoring equation, though.

    In any case, the scoring of rounds is meant to judge fighter dominance of the round, not mark off damage done on some mythical hitpoint scale. If a fighter doesn't drop from a strike, it's often hard to tell how much effect it's had on him once he's recovered and is still fighting a minute later. I'm sorry, but that you managed to lightly bruise your opponent's thigh at the start does not, for me, outweigh you being sat on, smothered, neck cranked and having your limbs torqued for the next four minutes until the ref lets you out.
  4. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
    ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    North England
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    7/29/2008 10:17am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fantasy System:

    Score the striking and the grappling separatley, both on 10 point systems but without the must because the round can go by with no striking or no grappling (Though hopefully not both!). Count subs as dominant position, whoever spends the most time in dominant positions wins the grappling 10-9. Guard top/bottom is neutral, strikes from one position count make that position dominant (i.e. affective striking from top guard means that top guard is counted as dominant). If you go the whole round without getting btter than a neutral posiiton (Assuming an extensive amount of grappling), you can expect an 8 or if you dont manage to get better than being mounted then expect a 7.

    On the feet score striking like you would a boxing match but make clear that while winning earns you 10, loosing badly gets you 8 or even 7 to give even weight to the striking portion.

    If no action occurs in a round in one area then a judge can score that aspect of the round 10-10.

    If no difference is seen between the fighters in one area then a score of 10-10 can be awarded (maybe spending the entire round in guard with no sub attmpts or affective strikes thrown)

    Takedowns into dominant position contribute towads your grappling dominance obviously, heavy slamming takedowns can be judged to add to striking perhaps helping decide otherwise tied rounds if one guy gets a big slam.

    Finally, loose a point in the relevant scoring system if you are judged to be saved by the bell.
  5. ADM is offline
    ADM's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,729

    Posted On:
    7/29/2008 4:43pm


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sophist: "In any case, the scoring of rounds is meant to judge fighter dominance of the round, not mark off damage done on some mythical hitpoint scale. If a fighter doesn't drop from a strike, it's often hard to tell how much effect it's had on him once he's recovered and is still fighting a minute later. I'm sorry, but that you managed to lightly bruise your opponent's thigh at the start does not, for me, outweigh you being sat on, smothered, neck cranked and having your limbs torqued for the next four minutes until the ref lets you out."

    You're wrong, it's both for control AND for damage inflicted (effectiveness we'll call it because I'm sure you can understand that more so).

    It's a fight and thus you'd score effectiveness over anything else. Meaning if you can throw 50 jabs and do nothing (Sherk?) whilst the other guy can land 3 on you and **** up your face (BJ Penn?) then you'd give it to the other guy.

    If you're controlling the fight from submission attempts from one to another, it's very hard for a guy to attack you during that. So whilst Mr Submission Attempt Man is doing his thing, he's scoring 'control' points surely. Now whilst some submission attempts take a lot out of your opponent there's a lot of failed ones that don't do a lot of damage.

    Lets face it, some guy may suck at finishing submissions but eats punches a lot during a fight. Who would win the fight? I'd like to think the person who was more effective but hey.
  6. noonyez is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    210

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 5:19pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    Everything else equal, it would. But if the other guy had landed a few solid strikes in the round while the other guy had only attempted a million (failed) submissions, I would most likely give the round to the striker.
    If they were solid, as in rocked and put their opponent in danger, then yes i agree.
  7. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    986

    Posted On:
    7/31/2008 8:02pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ADM
    If you're controlling the fight from submission attempts from one to another, it's very hard for a guy to attack you during that. So whilst Mr Submission Attempt Man is doing his thing, he's scoring 'control' points surely. Now whilst some submission attempts take a lot out of your opponent there's a lot of failed ones that don't do a lot of damage.
    If you're arguing in favour of there being points awarded for "control", you're agreeing with me, not the points-for-striking-only side. Just so you know. I'd prefer submission attempts to be rewarded over lay and pray, but I think it's imperative that some kind of control points are scored.
  8. v1y is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    657

    Posted On:
    8/01/2008 1:32pm


     Style: Internet Warrior, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Macdonald is off his rocker saying that almeida didn't do anything. He completely dominated cote in round 1.
  9. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,147

    Posted On:
    8/01/2008 2:21pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I judge local fights in my area. My criteria is simple. I usually look for one criteria. Who was putting the most pressure on his opponent during the round.

    This means if you get the takedown, but spend the next few minutes doing nothing with it because your opponent is throwing sub after sub, you are not winning. But if you land a few shots in there, and your opponent is just struggling to defend, you are winning. Likewise on the feet, if you are throwing lost of little technical strikes and your opponent has no answers, then you are winning, but if your opponent is shrugging them off and drops/rocks you with a few well placed power shots, well you are not winning. You could be throwing tons of strikes, but if every time you come in you get hit and forced to retreat, well that's not winning for you either.

    So its not about who's the most agressive, who's doing the most takedowns, or who's throwing the most punches. I'm all about who's putting the most pressure on his opponent. Basically, I ask myself, if the round continued the way it was going, who would win.
    "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.