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  1. lionknight is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 6:32pm


     Style: Much striking, SAMBO, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    Sorry, in my head, "history" related to this topic.
    In everyone else’s head you should still be newbietown.


  2. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 6:56pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lionknight
    In everyone else’s head you should still be newbietown.

    Thanks for speaking for "everyone"
  3. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 6:58pm


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    Thanks for speaking for "everyone"
    Everyone agrees with him.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 7:00pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You underlined History but, you are discussing modern problems?

    That is a noob mistake.


    I understand that this may or may not have been debated before ad infinitum, but my question is this:

    Belt Ranks are a modern invention, and these days, with McDojos and the like, are a nice little money spinner for some (see CKD - 18 belts to Black Belt).

    Belts, being a modern thing, and started by Kano not that long ago, my question is:

    1. Are they really important or necessary?
    2. Who really approves them? I know there's lots of debate here on fakes and stuff, but who really has the authority to claim like General Choi he was a 10th DAN. Says who? Who gave him the right to wear that, and who gave anyone he learnt off the right to wear a belt colour or DAN level?




    Who really has the right to claim "history" in belts when it's just a man-made measure that we create in our little social training groups and circles?

    Just because 40 or so years ago, someone claimed a black belt, and their "organization" claimed them a 2nd, 3rd dan, etc and then they promoted them up through tyhe ranks at you know 5th, 6th, 9th, 10th etc, what makes this legit?
    Your entire first post is a modern discussion.
  5. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 7:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    You underlined History but, you are discussing modern problems?

    That is a noob mistake.




    Your entire first post is a modern discussion.


    Not really, the questions were about belt ranks, and the original ideas, and the way they were earnt/handed out/bought/found/whatever.

    I'm not really interested in modern day stuff. I'm happy with my 40th DAN in Macrame-Do.

    Maybe i could have worded my question better.
    Last edited by kwangjochoi; 7/25/2008 7:11pm at .
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 7:12pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    Not really, the questions were about belt ranks, and the original ideas, and the way they were earnt/handed out/bought/found/whatever.

    You ask three questions. Which is funny because, you keep saying you want to ask a question.

    3. Who really has the right to claim "history" in belts when it's just a man-made measure that we create in our little social training groups and circles?
    This is asking about legitimacy not history.

    2. Who really approves them? I know there's lots of debate here on fakes and stuff, but who really has the authority to claim like General Choi he was a 10th DAN. Says who? Who gave him the right to wear that, and who gave anyone he learnt off the right to wear a belt colour or DAN level?
    Again another comment on the legitimacy of a modern day 10th Dan. Again who approves these people is not a history question.

    1. Are they really important or necessary?
    Nope not a history question.

    In fact you take it right out of the history realm with this comment:
    Belt Ranks are a modern invention, and these days, with McDojos and the like, are a nice little money spinner for some (see CKD - 18 belts to Black Belt).
    Can you say comedy option?
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/25/2008 9:11pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have x degree blackbelt. If you think I'm wrong step on the floor.

    'nuf said.
  8. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 12:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    You ask three questions {snip}
    ok, hanging head in shame and moving along...
  9. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 3:12am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    n00b.
    There's a fist full of irony here from a poster with 116 posts.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  10. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/26/2008 4:06am


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok, we are going to pretend he actually worded his question in a way pertinent to MABS rules, and as such, a history lesson is in order.

    Jigoro Kano is widely regarded as the man that founded the modern belt system when he first awarded belts in 1883. He distinguished between various levels of black in 1930, going up to 10th dan, but not limiting it there. colored belts were first introduced by Mikonosuke Kawaishi when teaching in Paris in 1935. So the belt system we have is really only 73 years old.

    to your questions;

    1. no they are not necessary, some of the most respected martial arts (wrestling, boxing, muai thai, mma) do not have a belt system. that being said, belts allow for a very visible hierarchy and CAN (but not always) represent that someone is capable of teaching.

    2. founding fathers of arts have a say on who is what rank in their style, thats kinda how it goes, its his club house. After he croaks, sanctioning bodies composed of high level instructors decide.

    3. i dont even know what you are trying to say here but the bottom line is that your belt doesn't mean anything unless you make it. it is not a universal symbol of skill because it doesn't even mean the same thing from style to style, let alone the quality control issues inherent in some styles. A BB in BJJ means alot right now because they have fairly decent quality control, and it also means that you are a fucking beast within that style. To compare, the basic TKD/krotty BB means very little because every idiot that watched karate kid made his own style and bs'ed himself some students. Furthermore, a BB in these styles symbolizes only a mastery of the basics, not the style itself. these things make a black belt (or any other pretty color you have) worthless outside the context you recieved them, i.e. your school will know what level of skill it requires for X belt, but standards may be different next door
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