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  1. SLJ is offline

    Titan

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,943

    Posted On:
    10/22/2002 5:40am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is where I say the same thing I always say


    Edited by - slj on October 22 2002 05:46:01

    Edited by - KC Elbows on October 29 2002 12:03:20
    "You realise the transformations give a man enough strength to destroy a truck with his bare hands!?
    YOU HAVE BETRAYED ME, IN THE WORST POSSIBLE MANNER!!" - KiWarrior

    "Sport ? That kind of thing's not my bag baby!" - Sammy Franco

    "This system was developed with the help of notible BJJ fighter Ribbon Muchado." - "Sifu" Anthony Iglesias
  2. darkface is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    67

    Posted On:
    10/22/2002 6:52am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My answer is easy. You will figth as you train, so you better train as you wanna fight. You wont win a fight through doing Kata... so I think it is useless.
  3. Choke is offline

    The REAL thread killer

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    1,225

    Posted On:
    10/22/2002 8:46am


     Style: World 10-3 Ryu Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kata is one training tool out of many. Noone claims to learn how to fight from kata alone.
    Kata improves balance, improves coordination, corrects posture, boosts focus and improves breathing in conjunction with movement. That's pretty essential for fighting. Speed bags, heavy bags, and shadowboxing help you acheive those things too. Why not combine kata with tradional sport training?

    Cast in the name of God. Ye not guilty.
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw
  4. Klasanov is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    108

    Posted On:
    10/22/2002 5:44pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because forms be useless, Choke.

    :D

    I know Kung Fu!
  5. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Xi'an, P.R.C.
    Posts
    4,249

    Posted On:
    10/23/2002 9:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Then there's the 2 person kata's we haven't mentioned yet. One of the hew times you get to try out the 'dangerous' techniques on a resisting opponent. You also get to hit full force and be hit full force. OW !
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  6. Nihilanthic is offline

    Decafinated white belt.

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    JacksonFAILLE Flor-i-duh
    Posts
    1,521

    Posted On:
    10/23/2002 9:28pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think sparring with a resistant opponent, and striking against someone striking you is better than a form. And you can chain techniques - its called fighting.

    I also think working out, and sparring, helps with balance and coordination. And you have to deal with people attacking you too!


    <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
    <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."
  7. PeedeeShaolin is offline
    PeedeeShaolin's Avatar

    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    3,516

    Posted On:
    10/23/2002 9:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The techniques themselves are just useless and outdated. There is no reason to practice useless techniques that you will never apply to a real situation. And this is coming from a guy who has trophies from doing Kata in tournaments folks.

    The difference between Kata and what rw2002 saod is a BJJ kata is that in BJJ you would be practicing WORKABLE movements on an ACTUAL person.

    "The only "ancient" art that's worth a damn is Wrestling.
    Pretty much everything else that is called "ancient" is just masturbation without touching your genitals." -Phrost
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  8. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    8,049

    Posted On:
    10/23/2002 9:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While offering criticism is a valid thing to do on a forum such as this and you have written some quality debunking articles I am wondering why you are on this TMA forum if for no other reason than to dispargae other people's views. Please enlighten me.

    The techniques themselves are just useless and outdated. There is no reason to practice useless techniques that you will never apply to a real situation. And this is coming from a guy who has trophies from doing Kata in tournaments folks.

    The difference between Kata and what rw2002 saod is a BJJ kata is that in BJJ you would be practicing WORKABLE movements on an ACTUAL person.

    "The only "ancient" art that's worth a damn is Wrestling.
    Pretty much everything else that is called "ancient" is just masturbation without touching your genitals." -Phrost

  9. J-kid is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    washington state
    Posts
    2,399

    Posted On:
    10/28/2002 6:03am


     Style: MMA-Vale Tudo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Katas = Junk



    Shawn
    Once a fighter, Always a fighter. Shawn
    -Styles i train in-
    Judo
    Bjj
    Mtkickboxing
    Western boxing
    Wrestling
  10. Amir is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    195

    Posted On:
    10/28/2002 6:51am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I read in the net someone describing an encounter between 2 people. The encounter was during a weapons practice, doing a two person weapons Kata in a traditional Japanese Ju-Jitsu dojo.

    The first person learned lots of Kendo, and most of his practice was sparring. He was confident in his abilities and apparently often boasted he was better then anyone else at that Dojo, since they didn't have his experience and wouldn't be able to apply their Kata in a real situation.

    The second person has only learned traditional Japanese Ju-Jitsu using Kata, without any sparring.

    In the instance I read about, the first person practiced a specific Kata with the first, and then changed the attack he should have done, and attacked in a different attack and hitting fast. A moment later found the first person on the floor, having been hit. It took the second person several minutes to figure what happened.
    Apparently, feeling a different attack, he reacted in a different manner; in accordance with another Kata he practiced and has applied it fully.

    In my eyes, this story isnít supposed to prove Kata training is better then sparring, but it does come to show you a proper usage of Kata training does have merit. At least as one tool in teaching & learning M.A.
    Just like any other tool. Itís effectiveness depends on both teacher and student. If the teacher teaches the Kata just as a sequence of moves, or the student uses it in such a way, itís effectiveness will be significantly reduced. Then if they practice it using various visualizations and try sensing their opponent (real in a 2 person Kata or imaginary in a single person Kata).

    Amir
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