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  1. NoTeefa is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 11:49pm


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    How you train is how you fight.

    This is something you hear a lot in MMA training. Whether its about keeping your hands up even though the bag isn't going to punch back at you, or about getting the tap during live wrestling (as opposed to getting to the submission but not applying it, like getting your arm around there neck but not actually choking them).
    Well my friend managed to actually use this concept as an argument AGAINST MMA training the other day. He claimed that in a self defense situation MMAers don't do well because they don't train to hit vital targets, and even worse, they train to specifically avoid hitting the back of the head, neck etc..
    Now this arguement might hold some weight if the statement "how you train, is how you fight" was a postulate, but now I'm starting to think it might not exactly be true.
    I know if I was thrown into a self defense situation I would be kicking and kneeing people in the groin then dropping an elbow right into the middle of their spine, I don't care if they're paralyzed for the rest of their lives. I may not train to do those techniques specifically, but I am trained to use my knees and elbows very efficiently in combat against live, trained, and fully resisting opponents.
    So maybe how you train isn't exactly how you would fight? thoughts?
  2. ADM is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/13/2008 11:55pm


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Last time I checked whilst we know we can kick a groin, throat, kneecap in Kyokushin, we don't strike that location in our sparring because we don't want our classmates to not have kids, be able to walk or can't breathe.

    Not to mention if we all punched to the face with bare knuckle we'd all get cut up quite regularly.

    It's an argument that isn't new and has been discussed on this forum time and time again, and I'm still a new member.
  3. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:04am


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think there is a small amount of truth in what your friend says (very small). MMA rule restrictions could limit a competitive fighter in a street fight. However, that is only one part of a much larger picture. If I can't stand up to a high percentage, ring legal move and get knocked out, the lack of "deadly" techniques will not matter.
  4. Big_Boss is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:10am


     Style: Transitioning as usual

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The same argument with combat sports vs self defense, or sparring vs "no holds barred fighting".


    The big problem with both arguments is that it assumes sparring/combat sports by their nature of trying to prevent severe injury means that the same mindset (via "you train how you fight) will establish dominance over willpower and the mind during a bigger and more importantly violent confrontation.

    In other words, there's a sentiment that "rules" and "safety" become an inhibitor. However, most people attest to it differently and do not go retarded over practicing in a ruled combat situation. Its like saying a boxer is incompetent of busting some balls in the street just because that's a no no in the ring (search vids of this happening in the ring to see why).
  5. Scott Larson is offline
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    Gold Summit Martial Arts Institute

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:15am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The idea is not to train specific techniques, but concepts.

    Training things like awareness, focus and intention are much more important that training "elbow to spine" and "knee to groin"

    The technique doesn't matter as much as how you use it. Doesn't matter if your a RBSD guy or a sport fighter.
    ________________________________________

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  6. Nathan McScary is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:17am


     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The whole "how you train is how you fight" arguement is a double-edged sword with no right answer.

    If you are too reserved when you train and only do light point sparring with lots of pads, then you will not be used to actually hitting and getting hit with power and all that jazz.

    If you go all out everytime you train and spar full contact with no strike restrictions or pads, then you will be constantly injured and have a very short-lived time in the martial arts.
  7. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:18am


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NoTeefa
    they train to specifically avoid hitting the back of the head, neck etc..
    To effectively hit the back of the head you would have to approach a person from behind. That doesn't exactly sound like something you would do for self defense if you ask me.
    For the neck, you're only prevented from striking the throat, which is not exactly the most convenient target to begin with.
    It doesn't exactly take intensive training to kick/knee the groin.

    In MMA you're allowed strike pretty much all the effective targets anyway, and are trained to hit them effectively. There's also the added benefits of training good take down defense and ground positioning.
  8. HappyOldGuy is offline
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    Slipping coal into stockings with a little sumptin for mom.

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 12:42am


     Style: Rehab Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How do train real eyegouge?
  9. cuatro76 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 1:04am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy
    How do train real eyegouge?
    You water it down to a gentle eye poke worth 2 points.
  10. Big_Boss is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2008 1:05am


     Style: Transitioning as usual

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy
    How do train real eyegouge?
    YOU

    PLAY


    SOCCER
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