Jim Wagner's military, police, counter-terror creds in question.

**Jeff C.** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 7:44pm

To expand on this, special tactical law enforcement units and military that GO AFTER known terrorists or their strongholds are conducting counter terrorism operations. Sitting on an aircraft to deny the enemy the ability to execute a terrorist act is technically anti terrorism - especially when the terrorists know in advance about the increased level of defense, i.e. hardening the target.

It sounds MUCH cooler, and more combat-oriented, to claim that one is a counter terrorism expert, though.

Jeff Cook

**Gezere** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 8:03pm

At the end of the day the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection is the most complete self-defensive system in the world at this time in history incorporating pre-conflict, conflict, and post-conflict training. And, when it comes to conflict we are well ahead of the curve: hand-to-hand conflict, survival for drive-by shootings, armed robberies, criminal style knife attacks, terrorist style attacks, criminal surveillance, and the list goes on. With or without me the system is going to thrive because ALL of the techniques are street and battlefield tested.

This is what get me. How is JWRBPP "the most complete self-defensive system in the world" according to him? What is this based off of? Where and when was it battlefield tested.

**A.M.** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 6:29pm

Here are two trailers for some jim wagner's videos on youtube

YouTube - Tactical Hand Signals

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 7:13pm

It is fairly obvious after the Utube videos that we are dealing with a misunderstood genius here. We should not bother this man with his small embellishments.... Does anyone ask if Mozart was a patrician?

My favorite gem was the modified gun draw against the knife assailant. Pure genius.... Just run around in a circle in reverse! Who wudda thought?

How can let other people teach stuff like this? I would sooner let somoene drive drunk than teach a cop to try to draw a firearm under those circumstances. :fucyc:

**M.C.** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 7:19pm

I wonder if the fact, that they showed the same exact thing (knife vs. drawing a gun) has been shown on TV (namely on human weapon) but from the perspective of the guy with the knife, adds or takes away from this guys credibility and the effectiveness of his system. I mean if even Bill duff knows that ****, wow...

**Kempoist** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 8:05pm

In the second video at :38 we see what I'm assuming to be a LEo wresting with someone for a knife...but he makes no attempt at weapon retention!!! The gun is right in the arestee's face at one point. All he'd have to do is reach up and take it. Way to promote the program.

And to think my forhead still hurts 12 years later after my first acedny instructor beat Weapon Retention Protocols into me time after time.

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 11:09pm

Originally Posted by Kempoist

In the second video at :38 we see what I'm assuming to be a LEo wresting with someone for a knife...but he makes no attempt at weapon retention!!! The gun is right in the arestee's face at one point. All he'd have to do is reach up and take it. Way to promote the program.

And to think my forhead still hurts 12 years later after my first acedny instructor beat Weapon Retention Protocols into me time after time.

I was thinking the very same thing.

In regard to the knife/gun scenario...I am no expert, but what about the 22 foot rule? That seems pretty well established, no?

**A.M.** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 11:22pm

Here is another interesting video of Jim Wagner's knife fighting system

YouTube - Police and Military Knife Defense

**DubhGhaill** · Posted On: 7/15/2008 9:36am

Originally Posted by A.M.

Here is another interesting video of Jim Wagner's knife fighting system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoOYtNL5J2I

That's pretty bad.

I wonder how this guy managed to survive as a cop.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 7/15/2008 9:44am

Originally Posted by DubhGhaill

That's pretty bad.

I wonder how this guy managed to survive as a cop.

obviously he was not subject to a knife attack. And obviously he has not spoken to a cop who shot a knife wielding attacker who was trying to kill said cop. There are however a lot of accounts that demonstrate that yes one can put a bullet in an assailant but in the meantime as assailant is dying he can also turn the cop into chopped liver.

Meanwhile tht wonderful stick in the belt, a weapon that nature made to create distance sits idle...