Posted On:7/13/2008 6:08pm
Here are Mr. Wagner's comments about his reserve officer status in Orange County, do you see any issues here Mr. Bishop?
I was a Reserve Sergeant for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department (Level 1 Reserve Designate, which means full police powers due to my Intermediate P.O.S.T. Certificate Municipal Police. This certificate is issued after the P.O.S.T. Basic Certificate only after 5 years of full-time police service, and only after accomplishing all Advanced Officer Training AOT). The Orange County Sheriff’s Department, the fifth largest at the time in the United States was no small department: approximately 2,000 full-time deputies and 200 Reserve deputies. My position at that time was a Team Leader and a trainer (bodyguard tactics, advances, and defensive tactics) for the Dignitary Protection Unit (a 10 man team) under Sergeant Wilfred Moreno and Captain John Hensley (Reserve). However, the day after the attacks I was assigned to the John Wayne Airport Sheriff Sub Station in Orange County California. After I gave a briefing to over 20 deputy sheriffs, the regional FBI, the Federal Aviation administration, and airport authorities (requested of me by the Incident Commander because I had just got back from instructing and receiving training myself from Israeli Special Forces and police units in addition to my previous training with American anti and counterterrorist units) I was assigned as the supervisor to the main check point for all traffic coming into the airport. It was here that we conducted field interviews and bomb searches of ALL vehicles coming into the airport. I just happened to have been photographed by a reporter from the Orange County Register newspaper and I appear on the front page on September 13, 2001. At least I had direct involvement in the security of the United States directly following 9/11. Where were these accusative instructors at the time?
Posted On:7/13/2008 6:10pm
This is Wagner's account of being an Air Marshal.
While at the Sheriff’s Department I applied as a United States Air Marshal and was selected. I was sent to the FAA training facility in Atlantic City, New Jersey. At this location the instructors taught us aviation security, how to handle and dispose of explosives on aircraft, and about world terrorist organizations.
I was then sent to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico. I was assigned to class 206B. Phase One was a new program for FLETC. Never before had the government trained so many people at one time in counterterrorism. They were literally training hundreds every week. Most of our courses centered on live-fire firearms training (for qualification and domestic and foreign ground conflict scenarios), foreign weapons familiarization, terrorism case studies, and some mandatory federal law enforcement courses such as constitutional law, sexual harassment, and report writing. The later classes were just a small fraction of the overall curriculum. It was because of this counterterrorism heavy curriculum that we FAMs (Federal Air Marshals) were not eligible to lateral transfer over to other federal agencies strictly on our FLETC training. A normal FLETC academy is good for multiple agencies. That was then back in 2001 and 2002, what they have done since then I don’t know.
Phase Two of my training was the Federal Air Marshal training. This included live-fire shoot house training, Simunitions training in various aircraft and airport environments, hands-on surveillance courses that included exercises among the public in the city of Artesia, bomb searching and identification for both land and aircraft operations, armed and unarmed defensive tactics, team tactics, and updates on how the new Department of Homeland Security and new U.S. Federal Air Marshal program would run (we were taken out of the hands of the FAA and placed under the authority of the Transportation Security Administration).
Upon graduating the two academies and being sworn in, we were all told by the academy commander that we were officially part of Operation Enduring Freedom and that we were the country’s counterterrorists in the skies. Apparently the Los Angeles Field office thought the same thing because we had the new FAM logo pinned up on a wall at the El Toro Marine Air Station with the words wrapped around it that read Operation Enduring Freedom. If they were not preparing us to fight a counter-terrorism battle at the time, then what the hell were all those courses about dealing with Hezbollah, Abu Saef, Islamic Jihad, and all the rest, hour after hour? What was the point of reenacting Islamic terrorist style attacks and learning some of their culture and customs? Either the administration instructing me was confused about the overall mission statement, that is to say the War on Terrorism, or this well-known self-defense instructor in question is the correct source of truth? You cannot have it both ways.
I then was assigned to the FAM Los Angeles Field Office – only one of the largest cities in America and one of Al Qaeda’s self proclaimed targets (eventually they did hit it while I was off duty that day when an Egyptian terrorist armed to the teeth ran up to the El Al airlines ticket counter and murdered a few people). After only three days of filling out forms and learning how to do federal travel vouchers I was out doing missions out of Los Angeles International Airport. The instructor in writing his smug comments implied that I was “simply just a common, sky marshal.” Here is a man who has no idea what was going on at the federal level at the time. Al Qaeda was constantly testing the aviation system during the time that I was in, and there were reports of the same even a year after I left the Service. Obviously, I am not privy to write about some of the things that happened on my watch or the Feds would probably use the non disclosure form that I signed against me, but I can tell you a few things about this “common sky marshal’s” own experiences.
One of my team members was under surveillance by two unknown Middle Eastern men in John Wayne Airport. I set up counter-surveillance on one of the men in question and confirmed that team member Shawn Bravo (real last name withheld) was indeed under surveillance. I called for back-up and the Orange County Sheriff’s responded.
Another incident was when I caught a Pakistani man doing surveillance on a Washington D.C. flight. He saw me coming from a SIDA (secure door) and immediately slipped into a large crowd of people to lose me, which he did. However, I discovered him on the plane he had been observing. I then made the decision to take him down.
Having seized the aircraft I legally detained this man, in handcuffs, and escorted him into the jetway with his briefcase. Not knowing if it was a bomb or not, and not having the luxury of calling a bomb squad should there be a second terrorist in the plane with a cell phone and he be able to call the possible cell phone connected to the bomb in the suitcase, I opened the briefcase not knowing what to expect. Fortunately there was no bomb. However, upon searching the contents of the briefcase I found suspicious documentation. When questioned about the unusual symbols and diagrams the nervous man told me that they had to do with “nuclear stuff” and then clamed up immediately after that. Two hours later the FBI whisked the man off. Does this sound like “Jack Bauer in 24?” You’re damn right it does. I don’t know what became of this man, just like I didn’t know the final outcome of 90% of the people I arrested as a cop, but all I can say is that I did my little part on the War on Terrorism. But then again, that was just a common task for a “common sky marshal.”
Posted On:7/13/2008 6:12pm
Wagner's claim to be an innovator/founder in the world of RBSD
Also, have you noticed what I wrote in my first book printed by Ohara Publications titled Reality-Based Personal Protection? In the chapter about Terrorism Survival (which I am the first civilian martial arts instructor in the world to offer a civilian self-defense course on surviving terrorist incidents), I was the first person on the globe to publish the fact that Flight 11, which went into the North Tower, was a chemical initiated terrorist attack; a toxic chemical weapon. Of course, I advised my agency and they didn’t know anything about it. I found out this little known fact from one of the head trainers at American Airlines. He had heard the actual aircraft tapes with his own ears, which a few days later were confiscated by “men in suits.” Then when the 9/11 commission report came out, the official documentation about the terrorist attacks, there is a vague reference that Flight 11 did experience a chemical attack, but that it was most likely “pepper spray or mace.” Of course I disagree with the commission report, and here is what I wrote:
A female flight attendant aft of the aircraft suspected something wrong and tried to check to see what was going on. As she parted the curtain she saw the First Class passengers unconscious and a “green smoke” in the cabin. She then saw two men coming out of the cockpit (the pilots’ area) wearing gas masks. Someone then shoved her back with force, and closed the curtains.
It is interesting that a couple years ago Al Qaeda terrorist launched a few chlorine chemical attacks in Baghdad. What chemical gives off “green smoke?”
This is the next accusation:
"3 months riding on a plane makes someone an anti terrorist specialist, lol."
This quote was not written from the well-known instructor, but rather one of his five star forum guests identifying himself simply as “JimH.” Of course many other people chime in feeding off of this instructor’s negative comments, and then they pull information right out of the air stating it as fact. So, to answer this guy’s comments, no, three months riding on a plane does not make someone a counterterrorist (anti-terrorism is preparing or preventing an incident from happening and counterterrorism is actually confronting terrorists, thus it is apparent from this writer’s lack of knowledge on these basic terms that he has never been in either field). What makes a counterterrorist is five weeks of counterterrorism courses taught by the United States government, namely class 206B. However, I did not walk into the program with no absolutely no experience. Prior to this I had been an official defensive tactics and tactics instructor for:
United States Marshal Service SOG (Special Operations Group) on multiple occasions
United States Immigration & Naturalization Service Anti-Terrorism Task Force twice
German counterterrorist team GSG9 on two different occasions in Germany
Brazilian Air Force G.E.P.A. in Porto Alegre, Brazil
Argentinean G.O.E in Missiones, Argentina
Israeli Special Forces and Israeli Police two times in Israel
United States Air Force Security Forces Space Command in Colorado and then at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California
Of course, this list does not even include the dozens of SWAT teams I have trained around the world. Although I was paid for my services (except the Israelis due to a trade out), I too learned from all of these groups as well. Does this well known instructor think that I do not have the intelligence to absorb information from these world class agencies? I guess to him my years of dedication to officer safety deserves nothing more than “lol” (lots of laughs).
The well-known instructor goes on:
“And we all know his advertised 240 counter-terrorism mission were… sky marshal flights, where he spent one year as a sky marshal. He wrote an article in Black Belt magazine about his one only rookie year as a marshal and it really was a fantastic and informative article. Really good stuff. Then he turned himself into a Jack Baur 24 series."
This well known instructor, who seems to know my life better than my own mother, says I was riding around on airplanes for "one year" while one of his forum guests states that it was for “3 months.” Well, regardless of the exact number it was, it is one day more than either one of them did. I can honestly say about being a FAM, “been there done that.” When you add my entire military, police, and corrections career together it is 20 years with a variety of skill sets. How much more can someone could someone need to call themselves qualified? There were a lot of people who tried to get into law enforcement or the Federal Air Marshal program for that fact, but not everyone was qualified. If this instructor wants to convince the world that I am a fraud, should not he and his forum followers throw up accurate dates and numbers on the website that match up? How can anyone believe what is written on that site? Apparently a lot of people do, because the well-known instructor’s comments are landing on a lot of other websites worldwide.
Now, addressing his last comment, every FAM who went up on missions were rookies. There were only a handful of FAA veterans in the program after 9/11, and most of them were tasked as instructors.
Posted On:7/13/2008 6:15pm
Jim Wagner's discription of his full time police service.
“…so Jim Wagner was a police RESERVE? Never a real, hired, staff, paid, vetted, real, city cop? A sergeant in the police…reserves. Reserves have to attend some kind of police academy, but it ain’t like the Los Angeles Police Academy. I know that reserves can serve in some manner on SWAT teams in some small departments and so forth. Am I reading that right?”
Let’s start with June 21, 1991 (Class 104) when I was sworn in as a full-time police officer during my graduation at the Orange County Sheriff’s Training Academy in Garden Grove, California; one of only six stress academies at the time (a stress academy is run like a military boot camp). It is also an academy where dozens of law enforcement agencies from all around Southern California sent their police recruits for 21 weeks. After graduation I served approximately 8 years, as a full-time, paid, real, city cop, and not once do I ever recall this well-known martial arts instructor ever watch me make an arrest, serve a warrant, or kick down a door with me to rescue a hostage. Since he was not there at these events or others he should have read my website where I clearly state my employment with the Costa Mesa Police Department (175 sworn officers with a city population of 100,000 and 30 minutes south of Los Angeles) ending with the rank of corporal (senior police officer). Most of my time was on patrol, but I also did the D.A.R.E. program for two years (police bicycle patrol and patrol for two years at the South Coast Plaza Mall when school was not in session), SWAT for three years, and was a defensive tactics instructor assisting Senior Officer Dave Dye at the Citizen’s Police Academy for a year when needed. My patrol duties included responding to all calls, self-initiated calls, traffic, prisoner transport, on-call as a SWAT officer, and court testimonies. Again, eight years as a full-time cop and I just didn’t sit idly by in my patrol car saying to myself, “I hope this is building up my resume so I can one day be an awesome martial arts instructor.” I just did my job, and I loved it. In a busy city with a lot of crime no other job in the world tests you more! No other job gives you such a wide variety of experiences: combat, helping a lost child find his way home, holding a man’s arm together while the paramedics come, car chases, bomb searches, death notifications, foot chases, finding drugs in a pocket, the rank smell of a jail at midnight. Nothing even comes close.
However, in all fairness I was a Reserve Police Officer with the same city for several months after I handed in my Letter of Resignation to Chief Dave Snowden, who later became the Police Chief of Beverly Hills, to terminate my full-time employment in order to pursue my new career as a private contractor to police and military units through my training corporation that I had established four years prior. My services were in demand, not only domestically but internationally, and I took advantage of the opportunity. I enjoyed attending bus assaults with German cops, I loved fast roping with the Marines, I had a blast doing hull searches under huge ships with the Honolulu SWAT Maritime team, I thought it was cool to eat guacamole and fried meat after training with my Mexican SWAT students, an to eat freshly smoked salmon on the edge of the icy river during lunch with the Quinault Indian police officer up in Washington State. I have had literally hundreds of experiences that made me feel alive and content with my occupation. Does it make me a “Jack Bauer” because I crammed in several life times into one? To some yes, but to me it is simply my life. I have always followed my personal motto, If you’re not living on the edge you’re taking up too much space.”
Continuing, from 2000 to 2001 I was a Reserve Sergeant for the Orange County Sheriff’s Department assigned as a Team Leader for the Dignitary Protection Unit (DPU), and yes that was unpaid. I served many hours without compensation. It didn’t matter to me. I wasn’t in it for the money. I loved law enforcement. It gave me a chance to work with the Search & Rescue Unit and go out on police patrol in the city of Lake Forest. I also did duties I didn’t care a whole lot about like guarding the crime scene of a murdered woman all night or doing foot patrol at the county fair every July. As a bodyguard I protected Sheriff Mike Carona on a few occasions, protect some movie stars, and protected the Treasurer of the United States Rosario Marin. My last assignment with the Sheriff’s, and again with Rosario Marin (her home was in Orange County), was when she was attending a speech with the president of the United States George W. Bush. That was cool seeing the president up close! The Secret Service is the best agency in the world when it comes to close protection. I admire them a lot. After all, the Secret Service sent some of their agents to me when I was teaching a sniper course up in Northern California.
Oh, and I forgot to mention my two years (1988 – 1991), I came on in December, as a corrections officer for the Costa Mesa Police Jail. I went to a Corrections Officers Academy for that one. My job was to book and house prisoners; murderers, rapists, child molesters, drunks, all of them. When they wanted to fight there was no pepper spray, stun guns, or tasers for us in those days; at least not with Sergeant Yezbick. It was pure hand-to-hand combat. Having two years in a custody setting you learn the mind of the criminal. I lived nine hours a day with these men. I’m sure that has got to count for something in this well-known instructor’s eyes. And, if had that been all I did in my career, just the two years in the Jail, it is more experience that the majority of civilian martial arts instructors out there. I dealt with, on a daily basis, the very “enemy” that most martial artists train to go up against. I didn’t have to wait for that “what if” day. They came to me every single day. If you don’t think jail is a good place to get self-defense experience try spending a couple nights in one in any good size city.
Posted On:7/13/2008 6:18pm
I know JKD!
I first met Dan Inosanto in 1977 at the Aspen Academy of Martial Arts for a solid month of training. Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Kali were virtually unknown then. That same year Dan told Black Belt magazine that he feared that Filipino would die out. Of course it didn’t, and he is credited for reviving it and making Jeet Kune Do popular. I got to hear the stories about Bruce Lee and the history of the Philippine martial arts because Dan gave me a lift each morning from my hotel room to the training site 20 minutes away.
At the Aspen Academy of Martial Arts Dan’s first wife approached me and told me that her daughter, Diana Lee Inosanto, had a crush on me and if I would be willing to take her to the dance that the Academy was having on the last day. I was 16 years old, she was 14, and it was a nice pleasant one-time date.
Dan found out that I lived in California only 45 minutes south of his school and he invited me to train at the Filipino Kali Academy in Torrance. From 1977 to 1980 I tried to go up as often as I could. Usually it was twice a week. It was great because sometimes there would only be a few of us, and we’d get a lot of individual attention.
When I went into the United States Army Dan wrote me a letter, which I have kept to this day. He was always an encourager and I never once heard a negative thing come out of his mouth.
After the Army I hooked up with Ted Lucay Lucay; another popular JKD and Filipino Kali instructor at the time under Dan Inosanto. After several months with him I started teaching Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Kali privately for a few years and dropped in occasionally at Dan’s new school, Inosanto Academy, located in Marine Del Ray (near the Los Angeles International Airport).
In 1987 I was teaching Jeet Kune Do and Filipino Kali out of my home in Orange, California. However, shortly after I started blending some of my military training with several other systems I had studied over the years. Eventually this was all to evolve into the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection system on January 21, 2003.
From time to time a mutual student would tell me that Dan “gives his regards.” Over the years I simply lost contact with my former teacher. Yet, I credit him for his revolutionary ideas back then which laid the foundations for me to eventually start the reality-based self-defense movement.
It would have probably have been a good idea for this well-known instructor to have contacted Dan Inosanto or Diana Lee Inosanto before going public and making accusations that I was “misleading.” The only one I believe to be omni present is God Almighty. Yet, this instructor seems to think that he knows all of my relationships and my motivations. There is definitely some “misleading” going on, but it is not coming from me.
Last edited by Sam Browning; 7/13/2008 6:25pm at .
Posted On:7/13/2008 6:24pm
Black Belt Magazine Loves Me, and I was the first to promote tactical RBSD in the magazines.
Now we come to outright lies. First of all I never advertised in Black Belt in the late 80’s or early 90’s. My first HIGH RISK article came out in 1999 thanks to Editor Robert Young who took a chance on me. You have to keep in mind that when I first approached Black Belt magazine there were no articles in any martial arts magazine around the world about terrorism, the use-of-force continuum, using air guns, stage blood for knife training, virtually nothing about criminal tactics, nothing on school shootings or snipers taking a pop shots. It was all about the traditional martial arts and a story here and there about the new UFC. My HIGH RISK articles in Black Belt magazine, and then in Budo in Europe, opened the door to the many people on the reality-based band wagon that you see now when you open up a martial arts magazine anywhere in the world. It took me ten years to get my ideas out there, but now there is no stopping it. But, going back to the late 80’s and 90’s, no, I was not advertising.
The other organizations he must be referring to that I “fooled” must be Black Belt magazine (North America), Blitz magazine (Australia), Budo magazine (Europe), Wieland publications (Germany), TRS, Sunrise Productions, and current organizations who want me to endorse a product or create a new one. I just got back from Madrid, Spain a week ago. I did the photo shoot for my second book and finished up my eleventh DVD. These are DVDs and books in five languages. So, why so many DVDs and a second book? Because they sell. Because people like my method of teaching and they like the system. If a product is not good, they are not going to buy a second. If a product does not sell a company is not going to give a second chance. That is just economics 101 and cannot be explained away by saying that I am just fooling people.
The same thing goes for me supposedly fooling the police and military. Nobody is being fooled, and certainly not the professionals. The Royal Dutch Police have officially incorporated much of my teachings into their defensive tactics program and are not afraid to say so. The Devon & Cornwall Police (Southern England) have just recently made my Knife Survival methods official training doctrine and are recommending that it become national training for all British police. There are now police agencies in Germany, Switzerland, Italy, and Sweden incorporating many of my own original techniques and training methods into their curriculums. No, I am not fooling anyone, they are coming to me.
“This knucklehead was actually showing up at his seminars wearing a full SWAT suit and HELMET! I find this a circus act and childish.”
I assure you that I have never shown up to any civilian seminar in a SWAT uniform. If this well-known instructor knew anything at all about my system he would know that I do not advocate anyone wearing anything construed aggressive in civilian training, not even a pair of camouflage pants with a T-shirt, due to possible future legal ramifications. I wrote a recent article about this titled Guilt by Association. Everyone who has ever attended any of my civilian Reality-Based Personal Protection seminars know that I wear a Reality-Based Personal Protection T-shirt, blue jeans, and a pair of boots or tennis shoes. That’s it. I tell my students, “Train in the type of clothes that you will defend yourself in.” For my civilian students that means street clothes. On the other hand, if I have to teach a tactical Army course they are in full combat gear, but that is in that environment out of the public’s eye. My last course was two months ago training 80 combat troops to be deployed to Kosovo. My assignment was teaching Temporary Fighting Positions write out of the Warrior Tasks manual.
Then, what is up with the insult? Why call me a knucklehead. How unprofessional and “childish.”
It is obvious that the real intention of this well-known instructor, and his instructors under him in various countries, are desperate to discredit me in hopes that it will damage the Reality-Based Personal Protection system. Most people reading these forums can see through it. What most people don’t know is how this all started.
Approximately two and a half years ago one of my Level 2 instructors, W.R. Mann, of New York City told me that he had received an interesting phone call. W.R. is the publisher of the online martial arts magazine called Real Fighting. It was W.R. that first invited me to train in New York City, and I have been every year since 2004 and I’ll be back there this year teaching from December 5 to 10 hosted by V-Force near John F. Kennedy International Airport. W.R. is a reliable person, and I have no reason to doubt what he told me.
W.R. told me that the caller, this well-known martial arts instructor, was quite angry over the phone. W.R. told me, “He is upset with you because he said that he created Reality-Based and not you. That you just stole his ideas and made them your own.”
I told W.R., “I didn’t even know about this guy or his work until a year after I created my civilian version of my system. I don’t even know exactly what he teaches.”
W.R. continued, “He told me that you never trained GSG9. He said that he was in Munich, Germany and that the GSG9 people he talked with never heard of you,”
I found this comment very interesting since GSG9 is not located in the city of Munich, but in Sankt Augistin near the old West German capitol of Bonn. It’s probably true that many GSG9 operators don’t know who I am. It is a fairly big organization and I only trained all of their tactics and defensive tactics instructors. I also met two different times with the commander of GSG9 on two separate trips there paid for by the German government.
W.R. also said to me, “He also says that you were never a sky marshal.”
That was his position a few years ago, but as you can see now he has finally acknowledge that I was a United States Federal Air Marshal. Perhaps in time he will acknowledge the rest of my background and think a little more carefully about accusing me other others publicly until he has all of the hard facts.
W.R. told me that he was so angry with this instructor that he didn’t even want to talk to him anymore. The caller called back a few days later and tried to convince W.R. that I was not telling the truth about my background and that W.R. should put that information out and severe ties with me. W.R. told him that he knew me well and that it was not in my character to lie, and that he would not severe ties.
So, as you can see, this has been going on for quite some time now. This well-known instructor is just not giving up, which only leads me to believe that he hates me without even knowing me, or he feels threatened by my system. He obvious feels like he somehow “created” reality-based concepts. I don’t know, perhaps he discovered some reality-based truths before I ever knew about him. I’ve never questioned his background. But the truth is that everything I have ever done, or techniques and training methods I have created, is either in an article, a book, or a DVD. All of these sources are dated and verifiable.
What this man is trying to do is take money out of my pocket, and food from my table for my family. He does not want people learning from me; a clear and simple fact. He is doing everything he can to persuade people not to attend my courses through the only way he can at his disposal, and that is through his own website and the website of his followers. Then this information finds it way conveniently to websites that proclaim to be legitimate watchdogs for former police and military personnel who exaggerate or make false claims, and then these same instructors say, “See, Jim Wagner is under investigation. Imagine that. Pity, we knew it all along.”
Not only does this tale teller try to take my livelihood away, but he wishes for my Directors and Coordinators worldwide to collapse and their for families are affected. We're talking about Canada, the United Kingdom, Sweden, France, Italy, China, South Africa, Germany, Holland, and those just about to come aboard. That’s a lot of wives and children in the cross hairs as well. This group then wants every one of our Level 1, Level 2, and Level 3 instructors who have been certified by me to be discredited and turn on those who taught them. Then, they are hoping that the police and military community will finally turn on me and toss my ideas out. Of course that is not happening since these agencies just don’t bring me in on my word. For example, before I even started training the federal and regional police trainers of the Netherlands I was told by a police chief that they had investigated me through Interpol to verify my background. Since I was one of the only foreigner to step foot in their new Amsterdam training facility they wanted to be absolutely sure of my credentials. The Dutch are very detail oriented people.
After training literally all of Amsterdam Police Department tactics and defensive tactics instructors in my Level 1 courses at Mike Constantinides’ Reality-Based school (Mike is the Reality-Based Personal Protection Director of Holland) in Huizen, I was invited to teach at the police training facility. After a two-day intensive course for all of the tactics and defensive tactics instructors in every jurisdiction in Holland my host Gerard (last name withheld) said to me as we were walking to the main entrance after we had finished the last class, “Jim, you’re in.”
I said, “What do you mean?”
He continued, “You’re in. You are one of us. We don’t let just anyone teach us. Not even many Dutch instructors. There are many people who want to train us, but we don’t let them.”
I turned to him, quite flattered, and said, “Great! Thank you.”
Their gratitude is probably why I ended up teaching members of their top counterterrorist and bodyguards of the Queen’s Protection Detail.
These guys are not just a bunch of “fooled” people. Their government spends a lot of money every year to send their top instructors to any program they want to check out. They have gone to Tony Blauer courses, FBI courses in the States, Krav Maga courses, BJJ courses, and anything new that comes along. The reason why they have incorporated a lot of my stuff into the official Dutch police curriculum is because, in their words, “It is simple, it works, and it is real.” In fact, they had me teach their instructors my Jim Wagner Use-of-Force Ladder explaining the various levels of force because they said that my graphic, which I designed and which was the first civilian self-defense use-of-force continuum in the world, was easier to explain and more enlightening than the Dutch police model. At first I thought they were joking when they first asked me, but they were serious. I was honored.
So, there you have it. I hope that this information has given you some insight into this rather awkward situation. Nobody likes to be embroiled in controversy, and certainly not me. I believe that there is not just one pie out there and I had better get my piece before someone eats it. No, I believe in baking more pies. That is to say, there is room for everyone out their in this big world of ours teaching the martial arts. I don’t mind people from other systems coming to me, nor do I mind my students and instructors seeking out other top instructors. In fact, I encourage it, and those who have attended any of my courses know that. If for no other reason than to compare systems.
At the end of the day the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection is the most complete self-defensive system in the world at this time in history incorporating pre-conflict, conflict, and post-conflict training. And, when it comes to conflict we are well ahead of the curve: hand-to-hand conflict, survival for drive-by shootings, armed robberies, criminal style knife attacks, terrorist style attacks, criminal surveillance, and the list goes on. With or without me the system is going to thrive because ALL of the techniques are street and battlefield tested. Of course, some people are going to see me and the system as a threat, and they are going to try to discredit it. All I can say to those who are wonder if they should attend any of the courses or not is, “There are thousands of professional who swear by the system. That should be evidence enough.” To my students, instructors and associates I say, “Thank you for your support and seeing through the sleazy attacks on OUR system. It was for all of you that I had to take time out of my schedule to address this latest attack. If anything, you know a little bit more about the details of my personal history. As always, Be A Hard Target. This trial has made us a little bit “harder.”
Copyright Jim Wagner 2003 - 2008 All rights reserved.
Posted On:7/13/2008 7:00pm
Samuel, I'll email you contact info for a retired Costa Mesa officer that was mentioned in these posts.
Posted On:7/13/2008 7:21pm
Thank you John. :)
My guns bigger than Scrapper's!
Posted On:7/13/2008 7:22pm
Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
Hey Ben, what do you think of his "advanced Scout Sniper Cert" The one that isn't signed by anyone.
Basic rule of thumb that was always told to me was, NO SIGNATURE ITS NOT LEGIT!
There isn't even a place for a signature. Thats seems odd. Even if it was a Certificate of Training or a Certificate of Appreciation it should have a signature and signature block. He have seen tons of COA given to civilians and they all had signature blocks. When we have civilians go through the Combatives progam here, rare but happens occasionally, they get a COT with a signature on it.
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
Posted On:7/13/2008 7:32pm
I have to point out that the all-knowing Mr. Wagner (sorry, I cannot call him "Sergeant" - I am an active duty senior noncommissioned officer, and that just rubs me wrong) is using the wrong terminology regarding "counter terrorism."
Technically, all defensive strategies, such as Air Marshals, law enforcement, force protection, etc. are anti terrorism operations. Offensive strategies, like bombing the crap out of a known terrorist training camp, is an example of a counter terrorism operation.
I am surprised an "expert" like him makes such an amateur mistake.
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