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  1. Songshan is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 1:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn
    if it makes you feel better thinking other officers go around crashing their cars all the time too, you go ahead and think that. it won't make it any more true, or you any less of a failure.
    Again re read what I posted I never said "all the time". To explain it again for you I said officers experience things from time to time that they look back and probably say "that was stupid". It happens. Please don't be dumb.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beon
    Oh....THATS what it is. And here I thought it was because Wagner was going around claiming experience he doesn't have. Damn, you caught me. He claimed to be swat, he wasn't. He claimed to be in the foreign dignitary protection/blowjob/whatever group, from the sounds of it that means precisisely nothing. He was an air marshal that sat and read magazines on an airplane....for less than a year, and counts every time he did that as a COUNTER-TERROR mission, which according to those on this site knowledgeable about these things, is the wrong term anyways. As for the H2H training that he would have recieved for these posts, the military taught **** when he would have been in. Police forces, at least the ones I have been able to sit in on, have just enough H2H training to get them killed if they ever fought anyone not throwing haymakers or grabbing them by the shoulders. I cannot comment on the H2H training he may have recieved as an air marshal, but I am starting to see a pattern....
    "does he have a black belt?" was one of the questions originally asked. Perhaps maybe you are starting to see a pattern because you are automatically assuming what the military is teaching is crap, what law enforcement teaching is crap, etc. I can't imagine what law enforcement agency would let someone "sit in" during the training. It's off limits to the general public. I guess maybe next time they should call you for a consultation. Wagners service record has already been highlighted and beaten to death already in this thread so feel free to believe and come to any conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Yes, when asked directly, he chose not to answer. Then suddenly when it got to hot, he starts adding things to his website recently. Recently. So no, this isn't some altruistic guy putting his bio out there getting dinged. This is a guy that refused to answer any questions, canceled a seminar, added an angry letter to his webpage and then decided to answer a few questions.
    Well, yea...wouldn't you? It sounds like he is trying to defend himself. We will never know what his day to day duties were other that he served in the capacity that he states. All I am saying is that either way he has received some extensive training and is not what I would say an out right fraud to what he is teaching.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 1:31pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Songshan
    All I am saying is that either way he has received some extensive training and is not what I would say an out right fraud to what he is teaching.
    No, that is what you are assuming in the face of not understanding.

    "does he have a black belt?" was one of the questions originally asked. Perhaps maybe you are starting to see a pattern because you are automatically assuming what the military is teaching is crap, what law enforcement teaching is crap, etc. I can't imagine what law enforcement agency would let someone "sit in" during the training. It's off limits to the general public. I guess maybe next time they should call you for a consultation. Wagners service record has already been highlighted and beaten to death already in this thread so feel free to believe and come to any conclusions.
    OMG but, they let them take pictures? Well thanks now I know. Ninjitsu and Wing Chun are the two greatest arts because, many military bases uses that.
  3. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 1:32pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Where-ever he received his "extensive training" it was certainly not in the United States Army.
  4. Songshan is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 1:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shaolin Kung Fu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    No, that is what you are assuming in the face of not understanding.
    ok....if you say so


    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    OMG but, they let them take pictures? Well thanks now I know. Ninjitsu and Wing Chun are the two greatest arts because, many military bases uses that.
    huh? Pictures are pictures....they dont expose tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninja claus
    Jim gets himself photographed wearing SWAT gear and he served as a LOGISTICS officer for a part time SWAT team in Costa Mesa, California. When I talked to Phil Hartman, a member of this team, he indicated Jim never conducted any raids or did any sniping. But Jim holds himself out as a expert in SWAT tactics.
    ok...he still had to have completed basic police training, spent time on the streets, and goto SWAT school, train with team.....even to push papers on the SWAT team.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninja calus
    He was in the regular army by his own account for perhaps seven months and now he's qualified to train army troops?

    It is my opinion that he didn't just highlight experiences, instead he padded and misleadingly exaggerated his past experiences and credentials.
    What's wrong with the regular army? If Wagner had anything less than a honorable discharge law enforcement would't touch him. I say he is qualified to teach law enforcement and civilians.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninja claus
    I do have a question. If Jim could convince Dan I to let him go out on a date with his daughter, Why couldn't he convince Dan to sign an instructor certificate for him? Hmm, maybe he just wasn't ready to teach JKD.
    Dont know anything about that but if it wasnt for Dan I's affiliation with Bruce Lee he probably would be butchered on the Bullshido forums. LOL.
  5. 1point2 is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 1:57pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Dear Songshan,

    Please stop talking out your ass.

    Love,
    1.2
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 2:04pm

    staff
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    Dear Songshan,

    Please stop talking out your ass.

    Love,
    1.2
    Hey, stop stealing my lines.

    "He spent time on the street" does not qualify his lack of verifiable training credentials..

    Quote Originally Posted by Songshan


    Dont know anything about that but if it wasnt for Dan I's affiliation with Bruce Lee he probably would be butchered on the Bullshido forums. LOL.
    Now, this is just stupid. The fact he has respect IN SPITE OF BRUCE LEE means he wouldn't get butchered.

    Technically, it is the BL nut riders not BL himself but, you get my point.
  7. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 2:05pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Nothing is wrong with the regular army, but Jim himself has said that he resorted to using congressional intervention to get discharged. I wish Jim would print a copy of his discharge papers publically, it would resolve certain questions about how and why he left after seven months.

    Jim went through, basic, advanced infantry training, and radio school and then bagged. He left as he was just starting to learn how to apply his army training, which was not particularly advanced to begin with. And this qualifies him to teach the military?

    He was apparently never in a shoot out or an armed confrontation when helping the SWAT team because he was running the phone lines at the HQ. I personally don't think that says much for his qualifications to teach SWAT tactics.
  8. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 2:07pm

    hall of famestaff
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually we make fun of B. Lee occasionally, we do respect Dan I, though I wish he would open up sometime and talk about all the tools who have attempted to use him to grab a piece of the Bruce.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 2:09pm

    staff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Claus
    Actually we make fun of B. Lee occasionally, we do respect Dan I, though I wish he would open up sometime and talk about all the tools who have attempted to use him to grab a piece of the Bruce.
    This is actually why I respect him more, yes his skills to, than many of the BL trained instructors. He tries his hardest to stay out of all the garbage.

    /end derail
  10. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2008 2:21pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Songshan
    Again re read what I posted I never said "all the time". To explain it again for you I said officers experience things from time to time that they look back and probably say "that was stupid". It happens. Please don't be dumb.
    you sighted CRASHING YOUR GODDAMN CAR as something that just happens to people. It isn't. The fact that you would pick something that severe as an example and hold it up as commonplace says alot about the level of people you think are in law enforcement. Wait....didn't you say you were in law enforcement? I guess its first hand knowledge then.


    "does he have a black belt?" was one of the questions originally asked. Perhaps maybe you are starting to see a pattern because you are automatically assuming what the military is teaching is crap, what law enforcement teaching is crap, etc. I can't imagine what law enforcement agency would let someone "sit in" during the training. It's off limits to the general public. I guess maybe next time they should call you for a consultation. Wagners service record has already been highlighted and beaten to death already in this thread so feel free to believe and come to any conclusions.
    I am assuming nothing. During my time in ROTC (I'll be back, once I get my grades back up), It was impressed upon me how bad what the army taught was in comparison to BJJ. This sentiment came up again when I was talking to a marine combatives instructor at one of my old instructors MMA events. It came up because I expressed interest in becoming a combatives instructor once I join the military.

    As for law enforcement not allowing anyone to "sit in", my father is a paramedic that teaches them their first aid. He has delusions of granduer, so he asked to participate in their training. They said yes. He brought me along because back then he thought it would be fun for me (I was like 13). It was basically a bad krotty class, with the addition of air knees and elbows to go along with the kicking and punching. Even what I see in these shows that follow cadets through "police boot camp" or whatever and they show the H2H training, its rudimentary boxing AT BEST. Police rely on weapons, numbers, and intimidation to subdue people, not t3h d34dly fighting skills (I know, been on the wrong end a few times, seeing a pistol drawn is usually enough to get me to cooperate).

    Let me pose this question to you; If police officers and military personel are so deadly and well trained in H2H, why is this board (and martial arts schools around the country) littered with LEOs and military men and women training outside of their parent agencies?
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