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  1. #261

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree, people should be investigated when there is doubt, I'm all for that.

    But, perhaps maybe someone could post a READABLE list of the "fraudulent" stuff Wagner has allegedly done...? Rather than long posts filled with opinion & editorial.

    To me, this thread reads more like people being nit-picky, desperately trying to uncover fraud where there doesn't seem to be any.

    It's a continuum to be sure, but from what I have seen, I would put Wagner's marketing claims more in the "hype" category than the "fraud" category.


    He's not in the same category as people like Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, Drew Howe, etc.. who are true "Frauds".
    Last edited by Spezza; 11/04/2008 12:33pm at .

  2. #262
    Just waiting for the paperboy. supporting member
    Lebell's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I agree, people should be investigated when there is doubt, I'm all for that.

    But, perhaps maybe someone could post a readable list of the "fraudulent" stuff Wagner has allegedly done...?

    To me, this thread reads more like people being nit-picky, desperately trying to uncover fraud where there doesn't seem to be any.
    sorry but...are you stupid?!
    you didnt even read this thread before posting in it,did you?
    go read the thread, and it will all be clear to you.

  3. #263
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I agree, people should be investigated when there is doubt, I'm all for that.

    But, perhaps maybe someone could post a readable list of the "fraudulent" stuff Wagner has allegedly done...?

    To me, this thread reads more like people being nit-picky, desperately trying to uncover fraud where there doesn't seem to be any.

    It's a continuum, but from what I have seen, I would put Wagner's marketing claims more in the "hype" category than the "fraud" category.
    You need to define nit-picky.

    You either are or aren't in the military.
    You either were a marine or you weren't.
    You either are a hired on instructor of LEOs or you do seminars.

    There is no halfway about claims like that.

    I agree the thread is longish, when things come together an article will be written as with the other people I mentioned above.

    Yes, somethings are a tad nit picky others aren't. As with most threads people see what they want.

    You see "nitpick."
    I see "backtracking."
    Other see "cowering."
    You say "hype."
    I say "exaggeration."
    Others say "fraud."

    It is all conducive to how we interpret the information provided.

  4. #264

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell
    sorry but...are you stupid?!
    you didnt even read this thread before posting in it,did you?
    go read the thread, and it will all be clear to you.
    I actually read most of this thread last night.


    Thought I would post because unlike most peple on this thread, I actually trained with Wagner a little.

    I gave my opinion.

    But, please, continue with the "Internet MAist Nerd Inqusition" based on 2nd & 3rd hand information.
    Last edited by Spezza; 11/04/2008 12:51pm at .

  5. #265
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    Lebell's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I gave my opinion.

    But, please, continue with the "Internet MAist Nerd Inqusition" based on 2nd & 3rd hand information.
    this is a telling response...

  6. #266
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I actually read most of this thread last night.


    Thought I would post because unlike most peple on this thread, I actually trained with Wagner a little.

    I gave my opinion.

    But, please, continue with the "Internet MAist Nerd Inqusition" based on 2nd & 3rd hand information.
    Really? You actually set the tone with your first statement.


    Your 8 hours trumps people that worked with him?
    Your 8 hours trumps people that actually train or teach in the military?
    Your 8 hours suddenly makes all of his claims "hype" and not "fraud."


    Is that what you are saying?


    Yet, somehow, you are above it all because, you took the 8 hour course and feel it was so well done, you can say all information within this thread is an inquisition?


    I hope, after this post, all the military officers, LEOs, Air Marshall's, and his former co-workers commenting understand that your 8 hours trumps their impressions and critiques.

    P.S. Your information is also 2nd hand so, by your standards, we need to discount your opinion.

  7. #267
    It is Fake's Avatar
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  8. #268
    Gezere's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I agree, people should be investigated when there is doubt, I'm all for that.

    But, perhaps maybe someone could post a READABLE list of the "fraudulent" stuff Wagner has allegedly done...? Rather than long posts filled with opinion & editorial.

    To me, this thread reads more like people being nit-picky, desperately trying to uncover fraud where there doesn't seem to be any.

    It's a continuum to be sure, but from what I have seen, I would put Wagner's marketing claims more in the "hype" category than the "fraud" category.


    He's not in the same category as people like Frank Dux, Ashida Kim, Drew Howe, etc.. who are true "Frauds".
    You obviously didn't read this thread if you're posting this.

    Go away.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh

  9. #269
    Gezere's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spezza
    I actually read most of this thread last night.


    Thought I would post because unlike most peple on this thread, I actually trained with Wagner a little.

    I gave my opinion.

    But, please, continue with the "Internet MAist Nerd Inqusition" based on 2nd & 3rd hand information.
    You actually training with him doesn't mean **** in what being questioned.

    Did you serve with him in his ever so brief time in the Army and can vouch for it?
    Can you vouch for the Marine "training"?


    If not then simply training with him really doesn't mean much no does it.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh

  10. #270

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I have read the allegations against Jim Wagner after clicking through 21 pages in this thread. I took some time and viewed a few of his videos in You Tube. I am in no way affiliated with or have taken any of Jim Wagners courses before. I just wanted to offer a bit of insight as a current 13 year law enforcement officer in Texas (all 13 years in street patrol).

    No matter which way you slice the pie, Jim Wagner has had some pretty extensive training. He attended a basic police academy, military boot camp, and received training as a Fed Air Marshal. He also spent some time in each of those fields. That's a lot of serious training. Those experiences alone would make him a very favorable candidate in any law enforcement job. It seems that it is not what "he has done" that is being contested it's what "did he do" while serving in those capacities. I see questions like does he have a black belt (why would that matter these days anyway)? Did he leave his agencies in good standing? I have seen good officers get run off from departments because of bullshido politics or they were not in "the click". Sure there were a few officers that remembered Jim Wagner as a screw up, etc. Any police officer has had a "oh ****" moment in their career whether they wrecked a patrol car or done something silly.

    So Jim Wagner decided to do his own thing and teach. A smart move in a business mind set. Terrorism is in the public eye these days and who more to turn towards for someone to teach some of their training? There are scores of police officers that never study defensive attacks after graduating from the police academy. Jim Wagner has immersed himself in it. As marketing would prevail yes, Jim Wagner has to promote himself and sell his product. So be it. It's either you like it or you don't and move on. In times where you can easily earn certain titles, even degrees online and what not, you can never take away a person's experience. Experience is everything...something that has been so easily dismissed here on the forum because "so and so" never heard of Jim Wagner , or because he didn't have a black belt. There are far more Mcdojos' out there killing martial arts than what Jim Wagner is doing.

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