Jim Wagner's military, police, counter-terror creds in question.

**Dsimon3387** · Posted On: 10/21/2008 10:02am

Originally Posted by datdamnmachine

Here's the wiki on military discharge for those who are curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge

I still haven't found anything yet that suggests you can get "military" training without joining; that is from the actual military. Considering the monetary cost of per recruit training even though its done by bulk, it would be very cost prohibitive to provide that training to civilians. Some cursory searching on the interwebs:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ining+for+civi

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052700854.html

http://www.sealtrainingadventures.com/

Almost everything that turns up is your typical "train like the military trains.." type stuff were you pay a bunch of money and get the experience. Again, the problem lies in the fact that you are basically buying a product that, if not to your liking, you can give back, refuse to use, etc. No commitment needed. Again, it goes back to the commitment thing.

I guess if you went through one of those things and they are ran by former military personal, it could be a bit of a stretch to say you were "military trained". "Technically" it would be true, but then that's the problem. Too much "stretching" of truth.

For what it is worth one of my teachers trains a lot of guys in the military and on various paramilitary quasimilitary functions... swat teams, cia etc... I don't know the term for these functonaries. In addition he was a Marine in actual combat duty in Vietnam, ect...

He trains in techniques that reflect this background of his and is sought after because of his ballistics knowledge and understanding of firearms. I mention ALL this to make a very simple point actually:

IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO ME to state that my training is military based!

So people that make this claim to me, may not necessarily be outright frauds, but they are misleading people.... thats my opinion based on fact.

**Jeff C.** · Posted On: 10/21/2008 6:30pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

See, and that is what I have heard. I thought maybe some of you "actual" serving members knew of such a thing. The fact you are having trouble finding anything that matches his alleged words is telling.

USMC and USA sniper school has so many things that are not necessary for a SWAT sniper, I don't know why a civilian LEO would WANT to attend it. And if they are attending just a basic sniper marksmanship course - one that does not involve learning how to take days crawling a hundred yards across an open field in a Ghillie suit to get close enough to your target (under the noses of OPs, sometimes) - well, they are just getting basic marksmanship instruction that they can get from an LEO school. Absolutely nothing different, except maybe the weaponry. And a good chance that the civilian school is BETTER at teaching marksmanship.

I mean, is there REALLY a need to teach a SWAT sniper how to call in indirect fire on a target (artillery, mortars), or CAS (close air support)? Is it necessary to teach military survival skills to a SWAT sniper? Absolutely not.

What is the big damn deal that it has to be a marketing point, especially when it has nothing to do with what he is teaching?

Civilians ARE allowed, at times, to attend the US Army Modern Army Combatives Program Instructor Course. Why doesn't Jimmy do that, so he can crow to the world about something that actually has something to do with what he is teaching?

Did anybody besides me notice that his last career was in Marketing?

Jeff Cook

**Gezere** · Posted On: 10/21/2008 8:41pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

See, and that is what I have heard. I thought maybe some of you "actual" serving members knew of such a thing. The fact you are having trouble finding anything that matches his alleged words is telling.

Civilians are given a chance to attend SOME military schools and they are usualy by the gracie of god (or the CG)

As Jeff already pointed out there are civilians that have attended and are certified in MACP.
HOWEVER something like a sniper school would be really really odd. Hell its hard for me to go to something like that, the actual course I have gone out shooting but that is no where the same thing.

Now we have had times where we let civilians come in and train with us but its more of a "hey come see what we do" type thing. Its watered down and they get "Hey you not holding that right let me help you out" instead of "WHAT **** IS WRONG WITH YOU SOLDIER! WERE YOU BORN STUPID!!!! POINTED THAT RIGHT OR I'M SHOVING IT UP YOUR ASS!!!!"

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 10/21/2008 10:39pm

Hey, keep reinforcing the point. I just wanted confirmation. It read like a play on words just like all the MAers that teach a class for the CIA and it turns out, it was a class of students, at a seminar, that happened to be in the CIA.

**A.M.** · Posted On: 10/22/2008 4:49pm

What about Wagner's Jeet Kun Do belt? Is there any way to even confirm that.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 10/22/2008 4:51pm

JKD belt...or certification?

**A.M.** · Posted On: 10/25/2008 7:30pm

Originally Posted by DerAuslander108

JKD belt...or certification?

Certification. There would be some sort of paper trail that would be easy to follow if he has a certificate from Dan Inosanto.

**Spezza** · Posted On: 11/04/2008 3:05am

Not to buck the bandwagon, but I took Jim Wagner's 8-hour Knife Survival course in December, 2006 in Buena Park, CA. Actually, it was just me and two other people, one of which was the friend I came with.

I was pleasantly suprised by his demenor & instruction; it was VERY simple, gross-motor stuff with LOTS resistance drills & scenarios.

He did mention he studied Karate with Yamazaki Sensei (who is a well known instructor in O.C.) when he was young, but didn't mention any other specific credentials that I recall.

He did mention in the course of instruction, teaching certain groups, or that this is from the FMAs or whatnot but that's about it that I recall about him talking aout his own credentials.

I certainly feel what he taught in that class was some of the better ( i.e. most realistic) knife defense training I have personally taken. Aside from "traditional" FMAs, I have taken about 6 "stand alone" knife-defense seminars & short courses (Krav Maga, Ray Floro, Tony Blauer, Steve Tarani & Model Mugging being the others).

Just my perspective. I have no interest in arguing with anyone about Jim Wagner, but I thinks he's not the best person to try and hang on the cross in a world FILLED with complete frauds of all sorts. Because, IMO, he is not.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 11/04/2008 8:14am

Originally Posted by Spezza

Not to buck the bandwagon, but I took Jim Wagner's 8-hour Knife Survival course in December, 2006 in Buena Park, CA. Actually, it was just me and two other people, one of which was the friend I came with.

I was pleasantly suprised by his demenor & instruction; it was VERY simple, gross-motor stuff with LOTS resistance drills & scenarios.

He did mention he studied Karate with Yamazaki Sensei (who is a well known instructor in O.C.) when he was young, but didn't mention any other specific credentials that I recall.

He did mention in the course of instruction, teaching certain groups, or that this is from the FMAs or whatnot but that's about it that I recall about him talking aout his own credentials.

I certainly feel what he taught in that class was some of the better ( i.e. most realistic) knife defense training I have personally taken. Aside from "traditional" FMAs, I have taken about 6 "stand alone" knife-defense seminars & short courses (Krav Maga, Ray Floro, Tony Blauer, Steve Tarani & Model Mugging being the others).

Thanks.

Just my perspective. I have no interest in arguing with anyone about Jim Wagner, but I thinks he's not the best person to try and hang on the cross in a world FILLED with complete frauds of all sorts. Because, IMO, he is not.

Thing is, who do you determine to investigate? Seriously? I'm not trying to be insulting but, if you are being fraudulent you are a fraud. There really is no gray area in your credentials. Gray area is saying you won a World Tournament in Idaho. Then you can say hey that was the title, not my fault. There are well respected people that have been fired for buying bad College Degrees, exaggeration one qualification on an Application, for plagiarizing a small part of a book they authored.

You enjoyed his class, he seemed very articulate, and the drills were good. People said the same thing about Tiger Klay. People said the same thing about Coda Scott. People said the same thing about Frank Dux. People said the same thing about Ashida Kim (Radford Davis). Same thing was said about Lt X. So on and so forth with other named individuals.

I'm not knocking your experience but, if he is lying or greatly exaggerating his experience he earned his investigation.

**Lebell** · Posted On: 11/04/2008 9:58am

Imo it shouldnt matter wether the person being investigated has a great personality.
I'm sure he's a nice guy to hang out with, but if he's adding experiences or makes incorrect claims this should be investigated.