Jim Wagner's military, police, counter-terror creds in question.

**Joe Karate** · Posted On: 9/03/2008 8:12am

Originally Posted by Jonathan Randal

While I am largely ignorant of the issues surrounding Jim Wagner's claims (real or implied) aside from seeing some of his cheesy ads in BB (one of the reasons I haven't bought one in years!) I have known folks who served in the CSMR (California State Military Reserve). With few exception, all were former honorably discharged NCO's or Officers in the U.S. Armed Forces and NONE of them ever implied to me that they were anything but members of a STATE force that served in disaster relief, auxiliary functions for the CNG (California National Guard), and aided wherever they could in state level areas. Not one ever implied to me (or others I know of) that they were CT operators, that their CSMR grades were anything but state appointments, or that they were going to or returning from "war' as a result of their CSMR membership. In fact, at the time I was a uniformed volunteer for the Coast Guard (aux - NOT regular or reserve!) and they told me their org. was similiar to the Auxiliary with the exception that they could be legally called out for disaster (natural or civil) relief, whereas I could not - I would have to volunteer as an individual - and would NOT be armed. Not a wannabee in the CSMR bunch (that I met, at least) If Mr. Wagner is parlaying volunteer CSMR status into something it is not, I would be very disappointed and I think most of the actual CSMR folks I met would be as well. Please don't judge these folks based upon any actions by a certain Mr. Wagner. His gun-toting "The Unit" type ads are not representative of these dedicated volunteers.

No one is trying to impugn the CSMR, Air Marshalls, Law Enforcement Officers, or Military, it's quite the opposite actually. This thread is looking to expose exaggerations, leaps-of-faith and outright lies Mr. Wagner has possibly made which sully the reputation of all the groups he claims membership in (including the MA field as a whole).

Thanks for your comments.

**Jonathan Randal** · Posted On: 9/03/2008 6:33pm

Originally Posted by Joe Karate

No one is trying to impugn the CSMR, Air Marshalls, Law Enforcement Officers, or Military, it's quite the opposite actually. This thread is looking to expose exaggerations, leaps-of-faith and outright lies Mr. Wagner has possibly made which sully the reputation of all the groups he claims membership in (including the MA field as a whole).

Thanks for your comments.

Yes, I know. I bet the folks from these above mentioned orgs. would be horriffied at the type of misrepresentations Mr. Wagner may have committed. Real shame, too.

**SSGT100** · Posted On: 9/16/2008 2:59pm

[quote=Jeff C.]The California State Military Reserve is not a component of the federal military forces. They are not Army Reserve, nor are they National Guard, which is a component of the Army Reserve. They are a state entity only, and are protected from being drafted, ordered, or called into the federal armed forces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces The National Guard is a federal force that can be used by the Governor of the state they are stationed in. National Guardsmen swear an oath not only to the President/Constitution, but also to the Governor of the state.

Jeff Cook.

Mr Cook,

If I may I would like to touch on a few things that you are debating on.

The california state military reserves are a legel military organization under the military and veterans code. Just like the national guard we swear oath to the governer of the state and are held to the military uniform code of military justice. The national guard are title 32 and are not title 10 federalized until they are sent overseas. (look it up) the governor has to give up command of his state troops to the president. We are also title 32 and cannot be title 10 federalized. Mainly due to state and federal funding laws nothing more. Do we get paid (YES)when put on activation at a federal pay grade thank you.

OK NOW THE WAGNER PART:

1. wagner is a real sergeant in a real MP unit

2. I am on the state combatives martial arts team. Is wagner? NO AND NEVER WILL BE

3. we teach combat techniques and civilian law enforcement technioues to national guard soldiers and are qualified to do so (one of the qulifications be task force warrior) is wagner? NO, I have never seen him at any of the qualifications. It is a small group he would have been recognized.

4. We have to pass Army military police training before being allowed to teach it. Is wagner? NO, wagner has still not met the qualifications.

5. 98 percent of the soldiers in my unit are recently seperated military police or actual army rangers. The other 2 percent are real civillian law enforcement officers that join up to teach civillian law enforcement to soldiers. (it sickens me to see people ride the coat tails of what honarable people do and claim it as their own)

6. LAST BUT NOT LEAST: how can Wagner teach anything when he is never at drill? How many times have you been deployed with our unit dude?

Stop taking pictures next to hummers and saying your training overseas. The **** is getting old, and you make us soldiers that actually care about these young kids going off to war look bad. We believe in quality training that may actually save a soldiers life not that bullshit you try to pass of as REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.

Thank you Bullshido for your time.

**Jeff C.** · Posted On: 9/16/2008 6:39pm

I agree with your comments concerning Wagner. Regarding the other stuff, I have been a full-time service member of the ARNG since 1989. I am active duty ARNG (AGR).

What I said is factual; what you said is partially factual as well. What I said in no way diminishes the State forces. It is what it is. Also, when you are activate for state active duty, you are paid at a federal rate, but you are paid by the state (am pointing that out because the way you worded it may lead folks to believe you are paid by the federal government).

By the way, as a state entity, you are only subject to the state military code. The UCMJ applies to active duty Soldiers, National Guard Soldiers on federal active duty (Title 32 and Title 10, but not in an AT status), and non-Guard Reserve units in IDT and active duty status (Guard units in IDT status are subject to state military code also, not UCMJ).

However, California may have done what Florida has done. The Florida Code of Military Justice was created when Florida Statute 250 partially adopted the Manual of Court-Martial. The FCMJ strongly resembles the UCMJ, except in the manner of possible punishments and some procedures.

In short, it is impossible for a State force or a federal force under State control (ARNG in IDT status) to be subject to the UCMJ. But many states commonly refer to their state military code as the "UCMJ" because it strongly resembles the "real" UCMJ. It is a very common misnomer.

Additionally, your statement "The national guard are title 32 and are not title 10 federalized until they are sent overseas" is totally incorrect. Stateside missions under Operation Noble Eagle are Title 10 - and the troops do not go overseas. There are also hundreds of Title 10 active duty tours offered in the US to NG and USAR troops. Furthermore, the AGR program is under a DIFFERENT section of Title 32 - and we are FEDERALIZED active duty troops, but under State control.

It can get confusing. ;-)

Thread drift done.

Jeff Cook

**Jonathan Randal** · Posted On: 9/16/2008 9:16pm

Originally Posted by SSGT100

6. LAST BUT NOT LEAST: how can Wagner teach anything when he is never at drill? How many times have you been deployed with our unit dude?

Stop taking pictures next to hummers and saying your training overseas. The **** is getting old, and you make us soldiers that actually care about these young kids going off to war look bad. We believe in quality training that may actually save a soldiers life not that bullshit you try to pass of as REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.

Thank you Bullshido for your time.

Oh, my prophetic soul! I was fairly certain, based upon my impression of those in the CSMR that I have met, that Mr. Wagner was probably not representing your organization well - at least in the opinion of one member.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 9/16/2008 11:06pm

Originally Posted by SteveRBSD

Hi Lebel, your translation is correct. I have no part in the RBSD field, just an outside observer poiting out a few things. The reason why I highlight the behaviour of Joe is that it is very pertinent to this thread.

Steve

Name : SteveRBSD

Style : Reality Based Self Defense

Now I know this is a month old ... but come on guys . WTF .

**SteveRBSD** · Posted On: 9/17/2008 1:20pm

Hi BackFistMonkey,

I appreciate your skepticism. When the forum asks for a style I put that in as that's the only experience I have of systems. I already said I've been on a JW course before.

SSGT100, interesting first post. So to clarify, are you accusing Jim of being an out and out fraud? You give so much evidence that surely we're coming to the point soon where legal action can be taken.

Steve

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 9/17/2008 3:12pm

Originally Posted by SteveRBSD

Hi BackFistMonkey,

I appreciate your skepticism. When the forum asks for a style I put that in as that's the only experience I have of systems. I already said I've been on a JW course before.

Steve

Cute , I like how you stole my edited for comment ... it makes me a sad monkey . Like when I realized you don't need to put RBSD in your screen name . As for your style field if you are not practicing martial arts at this moment you should put something like "not training" or "none" into your style field .

I also like how you got all interested again once you figure someone was calling jim a fraud .

" So to clarify, are you accusing Jim of being an out and out fraud?"

but yet ... you are not affiliated with or working for "Jim" ...

You are so full of **** .

**SteveRBSD** · Posted On: 9/17/2008 3:22pm

Nice logic. I guess you're a monkey then. Amazing.

As to training I still train now and again in RBSD and not necessarily Wagner. Again, I'm breaking no forum rules and being honest. I am sorry you take umbrage at this.

I got interested because you mentioned me.

Steve

**Lob Sing** · Posted On: 9/17/2008 5:03pm

However, California may have done what Florida has done. The Florida Code of Military Justice was created when Florida Statute 250 partially adopted the Manual of Court-Martial. The FCMJ strongly resembles the UCMJ, except in the manner of possible punishments and some procedures.

Why would Florida come up with their own rules concerning the UCMJ. And what would have to happen to be prosecuted by the UCMJ and not the FCMJ.