Jim Wagner's military, police, counter-terror creds in question.

**A.M.** · Posted On: 8/16/2008 9:49am

I wonder how much of it is walter mittyish fantasy and how much of it is a straight up con job for guys Wagner

Look at how much dress up is involved in Wagner videos. Look at all of the photos he has taken of himself in "action" poses.

Take this for example:

http://www.realitybased.at/jim_wagner_start.html

Scroll down and look at the photo of Wagner on "The Dignitary Protection Unit". The photo reminds me of a little kid playing secret agent. He's wearing the dark sunglasses and holding what looks to be a airsoft Steyr Aug (by the way besides customs do any other U.S. law enforcement agencies actually use Steyr Augs). He's also standing in front of black car with it's passenger side door left open to look like something urgent might be happening.

Is this all some sort of elaborate make believe game?

**drunkmonkey** · Posted On: 8/19/2008 7:19pm

This stuff even gets peddled in rainy Ireland... see links below...
it's utterly, utterly disappointing that people have to spend their hard-earned cash on this.

delighted to see wagner and his disciples exposed.

I know the second guy on the list of the first link (http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/ins...rsireland.html) runs a Krav Maga school (http://www.kravmagaireland.com/) in dublin - seems to have everyone convinced they're the real mcoy, whether they are or not, who knows...

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/ins...rsireland.html

Krav Maga - boards.ie

http://www.shieldselfdefence.com/about.htm

**A.M.** · Posted On: 8/19/2008 7:55pm

On Jim Wagner's website EXPIRED is listed in all of the instructor's name. Maybe they all left his organization.

**lee roy brown** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 10:30am

As far as I know all you have to do to become an instructor in his system is...take a regular course and pay an additional amount of money for a license...

**Frank Black** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 2:03pm

Wow. You could just about fill a thimble with what I know about anti terrorism, counter terrorism, or police tactics. But the self defense techniques this guy has shown in Black Belt Magazine have ranged from the humorously nonsensical to the outright dangerous. I'm glad somebody has brought his deceptions to light.

**SteveRBSD** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 2:53pm

Hi everyone,

To look at the bigger picture concerning Jim Wagner I think we must also examine who is making the most noise over this.

Joe Hubbard, the UK director of the Scientific Fighting Congress began signing up and posting on forums claiming Jim Wagner had been exposed.

It transpires that Joe himself has already been exposed as pursuing an agenda of competitior sour grapes. If you look at these two threads you can see how they start and how they end. For expedience sake, it shows that Joe is himself guilty of the things he claims Wagner is doing.

1. http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/se...wnet-t6252.htm

2. http://senshido.savi.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5346

Whilst I agree that frauds should be exposed, I think we should leave the inquiry to people who do not have their own agenda e.g. competitiors in the same field. What we have here is a smear campaign that is attempting to discredit Jim Wagner before the true facts have been revealed.

If it transpires that Wagner is guilty of hyperbole then there are many others who are just as guilty in my eyes, including the Scientific Fighting Congress. It's an exceptionally grey area as to what constitutes a fraud as most RBSD instructors bend the truth, use advertising to their best advantage and are ultimately trying to sell us something. In a nutshell, I think they are all bullshitters out to make money, and I am including JW in this. As an adult though, I am capable of working out what is advertising, what is ultimately worth spending my money on and am intelligent to know when politics are involved (as in this case).

Let someone in authority deal with this if it is that serious and stop this unbiased slagging off without the true facts.

Steve

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 2:56pm

Originally Posted by SteveRBSD

Hi everyone,

To look at the bigger picture concerning Jim Wagner I think we must also examine who is making the most noise over this.

Joe Hubbard, the UK director of the Scientific Fighting Congress began signing up and posting on forums claiming Jim Wagner had been exposed.

It transpires that Joe himself has already been exposed as pursuing an agenda of competitior sour grapes. If you look at these two threads you can see how they start and how they end. For expedience sake, it shows that Joe is himself guilty of the things he claims Wagner is doing.

1. http://selfprotection.lightbb.com/se...wnet-t6252.htm

2. http://senshido.savi.ca/viewtopic.php?t=5346

Whilst I agree that frauds should be exposed, I think we should leave the inquiry to people who do not have their own agenda e.g. competitiors in the same field. What we have here is a smear campaign that is attempting to discredit Jim Wagner before the true facts have been revealed.

If it transpires that Wagner is guilty of hyperbole then there are many others who are just as guilty in my eyes, including the Scientific Fighting Congress. It's an exceptionally grey area as to what constitutes a fraud as most RBSD instructors bend the truth, use advertising to their best advantage and are ultimately trying to sell us something. In a nutshell, I think they are all bullshitters out to make money, and I am including JW in this. As an adult though, I am capable of working out what is advertising, what is ultimately worth spending my money on and am intelligent to know when politics are involved (as in this case).

Let someone in authority deal with this if it is that serious and stop this unbiased slagging off without the true facts.

Steve

Yes, I agree. That is why it was handed off to bullshido. Sam, also many of the others posting here, do not practice, teach, or promote RBSD.

So, you are right, it is in impartial hands right now. Thing is, an investigation doesn't preclude people in the field from posting.

Also, who is an authority other than his peers or, people in the same field?

**DannyMac** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 2:56pm

Did you actually bother reading this thread Steve before posting that? There are ton of facts and stories that collaborating the point that Jim Wagner at best has greatly exaggerated his credentials and at worst has flat out lied about a few things. Even if the source of the investigation was a fraud himself that does not invalidate the discoveries about Wagner.

**SteveRBSD** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 3:29pm

Yes, I read the whole thread and all the other threads posted on other forums.

It pains me, this baying mob mentality, especially when it's based on scant fact. I can only see some possible evidence of exaggeration on Jim's part, of which I see examples on his competitor websites. It happens all the time in advertising and it's no different in the RBSD world.

Steve

**Joe Karate** · Posted On: 8/20/2008 3:57pm

Originally Posted by SteveRBSD

Yes, I read the whole thread and all the other threads posted on other forums.

It pains me, this baying mob mentality, especially when it's based on scant fact. I can only see some possible evidence of exaggeration on Jim's part, of which I see examples on his competitor websites. It happens all the time in advertising and it's no different in the RBSD world.

Steve

Steve,

Do you mind divulging your association with Mr. Wagner?