Jim Wagner's military, police, counter-terror creds in question.

**Epa** · Posted On: 7/21/2008 12:35pm

I would also ask Jim, if he ever had permission to teach, or was a certified instructor under any of the following JKD instructors.

Dan Inosanto
Larry Hartsell
Richard Bustillo
Ted Lucay

Some of these should be pretty easy to verify. I know the Inosanto Academy keeps a record of active instructors. So you could just call the Inosanto Academy to check and see if he is a current instructor. The number is (310) 578-7773. Guro Dan also keeps pretty meticulous records and has been using certification since the 1970s so even if Wagner's certification was old, it should be tracable.

Wagner doesn't show up on SiFu Hartsell's list http://www.jkdassoc.com/JKDGrappling...ructorsUS.html, though it may not be up to date.

I don't know about Richard Bustillo, but I'm guessing he keeps records too and that you could check by contacting his academy. The one that will probably be difficult to check on is certification with Ted Lucaylucay because I don't think his organization exists anymore.

**A.M.** · Posted On: 7/21/2008 12:51pm

Originally Posted by zipit777

I am having him host a seminar at my training center, should I cancel or should I do and get some information directly from him questioning these concerns?

What is the subject of this seminar going to be and what is Jim Wagner going to be talking about if it does happen?

**zipit777** · Posted On: 7/21/2008 1:07pm

He is doing a full week at my training center, every module he teaches and then he is doing a tactical knife course on the weekend...
So basically a full week at my center

**Hock** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 2:32pm

Hello folks.
This W. Hock Hochheim and since I got stuck in the middle of this, I thought I'd offer up a quick military Wagner summary. You can read an overview on my July blog at:
http://www.hockscqc.com/blogs/07-08/index.htm

And at the bottom is the "Wagner Reader" link list covering many of the questions and topics brought up right here. Perhaps you will find some answers.

And then I will hope to fade away from the whole deal as quickly and quietly as possible.

Thanks,
Hock

P.S. (a couple of PSs)
a) I will add I am not FMA or Asian-based. I deal strictly with core, generic, universal tactics. I can teach FMA and Asian, don't want to, but will when asked - which for years has been rarely and getting more rare. Which suits me fine.
b) There over 300 million folks in the USA and millions more around the world. Wagner's "market share" is teeny-tiny and not exclusive. We have shared students before, quite problem-free and neither of us cared a bit.
c) I hate the term "reality-based, self defense." Its redundant foolishness. Like saying, "I'd like pizza with my pizza." I do not and will not use the term "RBSD" for me.

**Hock** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 2:39pm

Also, Wagner is not certified by any Inosanto person. You can save your search time.
As stated by Ron Balicki, Inosanto's son in law.
See: http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4043.0.html

Hock

**Bishop** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 5:14pm

I've got a question for any of the military people here. What is a "California Army Reserve"? I was always under the impression that the California state militia was the "National Guard". Is there a second state military reserve?

**Jeff C.** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 6:25pm

The California State Military Reserve is not a component of the federal military forces. They are not Army Reserve, nor are they National Guard, which is a component of the Army Reserve. They are a state entity only, and are protected from being drafted, ordered, or called into the federal armed forces. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces The National Guard is a federal force that can be used by the Governor of the state they are stationed in. National Guardsmen swear an oath not only to the President/Constitution, but also to the Governor of the state.

Jeff Cook

**Hock** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 6:32pm

I posted this list in my General Categories part of my Talk Forum page of the "Jim Wagner Training" topic. I hope it will display okay here as the boxes are wider on the forum and it might be all catywompass here:

So that we might explain this best to our friends overseas, and some here.

Full Time (and obviously may go war)
Active Duty Military Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard

Part Time (and may go to war)
The National Military reserves
Reserves Army http://www.armyreserve.army.mil/ARWEB
Reserves Navy http://www.navyreserve.com/
Reserves Air Force http://www.afrc.af.mil/
Reserves Marines http://www.marforres.usmc.mil/
Reserves Coast Guard http://www.uscg.mil/
The National Guard http://www.ngb.army.mil/About/default.aspx

Part Time (and may NOT go to war)

The State-by State “Defense Forces.” Every state has its own small, part time support military group, sometimes more than one per state. State militias are not sent to fight overseas wars, but handle state emergencies.
Here is a list of the over 50 http://www.constitution.org/mil/link2mil.htm

One of these nine militia groups in California is the California State Military Reserves. (will not to go war) The CSMR is a volunteer, operational force. Its members are subject to call to state active duty by the Governor of the State of California.
http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx
They have done an amazing amount of firefighting.

<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>

I think this a good rough outline of the big picture. Wagner should be commended for volunteering in any reserve. Good for him. However, I must sadly share some opinions out there on the motivations. Wagner has always skirted just outside and on the limits of actually doing something and then wordsmithing his way into sounding like he's actually done something. He has a history of this. I really do hope I am wrong about this point, but I can't shake it out of my head.

Hock

**Bishop** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 7:08pm

Well it's very commendable to volunteer for a group that is used for emergency stateside services like state reserves, search & rescue teams, volunteer fire departments, or civil air patrols.
But to use service in those positions to infer combat or anti-terrorism experience is pretty sad. Actually, sleazy.

**Jeff C.** · Posted On: 7/23/2008 8:22pm

Hock, I hate to disagree, but Florida does NOT have a recognized State Defense Force. Not all states do. We have an unorganized militia consisting of every able-bodied man 18 years old and above. Florida statutes certainly provide for creating an organized one (in detail) but one has not been created.

Unfortunately there are a lot of extreme right-wing militias (paramilitary) in this country that are not sanctioned or recognized by the government. Their websites are all over the internet, and many mistake these organizations for lawful ones. They are not.

Here is a fairly, if not totally, accurate list of recognized, authorized state defense forces: http://www.sgaus.org/States.htm

Here is a list of some of the phonies (this is not an all-inclusive list): http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies253.htm

Before anyone questions my credentials, I am an ACTIVE DUTY senior NCO in the Florida Army National Guard. I have been full-time in the FLARNG for a little over 20 years. Real Soldiers are offended by the posers and pretenders, thus my clarification.

Jeff Cook