Posted On:7/11/2008 12:50am
Jim Wagner writes for Black Belt Magazine and was placed into their hall of fame as self defense instructor of the year. Wagner claims police service, military service, and counter terrorism experience. And writes lots o' articles about knife fighting/sniping ect.
The POW Network ran a recent story on him and now Hoch Hocheim has called elements of Wagners CV into question. I've never seen Hoch go off on a named individual before and I think that Hoch is pretty level headed. Many of you also know of the respect I have for the POW Network's research.
So here are the links and Hoch's list of unanswered questions for Jim Wagner.
Post by Hock
"It has become apparent that Wagner is answering the POW network. (For the record I have nothing to do that at all. Zero,) Wagner's response is a small...well.. ell, actually, medium-sized "book", as one might expect because Wagner is really a skilled wordsmith, and as one might expect it is rife with subtle advertsing and self-aggrandizement. Honestly I would glady run it here but it is rife with Wagnerisms and Wagneristic ads. But i want to get his reponse out in the case of fairness.
And it has become apparent that he has also read this talk forum. (Jim W. you can use my name anytime with absolute impunity - I really don't care.) If we or I am wrong about something let's all clear it up, in SIMPLE, quick sentences. Fast. Right here. Now. I'd be happy too. No ads please.) I would really like to post your circulating response to be fair...But it is hideiously LONG. Its a snoozer. Jim, if you are reading this now...I cannot tell hide-nor-hair of what the bottom-line truth is? I/we here and elsewhere would more than welcome right here, real simple answers to few questions to clear things up. Just a line or two.
1) Do you have any Black Belts? (yes or no and in what)
2) Did you really believe that you were beginner/founder/father of "reality-based training" in 1996 or 1997?
3) Were you ever an active duty, full time, street cop? (yes or no, will do. Nothing against the reserves, we are just wondering)
4) Did you actively raid and perform actual SWAT jobs? About how many? Prove it. Give us a name.
5) How many High risk diplomatic escorts did you REALLY do in Costa Mesa, CA?
6) Did you ever say or advertise, or suggest that you were in US Army Special Forces? Some of your early ads do? And some of your early students seem to think you were in South America with the SF (I know you are not responsible for what your students say. I understand this can be confusing.)
7) Did you feel funny at all when you said you did 240 counter-terrorism missions? What is that all about? (By the way, the quote about - "yeah, they are called flights," - came from a sky marshal that knew you. I did not make that quote up)
8- Do you know Chuck Habermelh, police and police trainer?
9) For years, the "Sergeant" moniker you used was just an ad-nickname right? Then you became a real SGT in the state military reserves recently? This seems to be an issue in the POWNET.
10) Why do you never mention HSS International in your resume?
11) In your response to the POWNET you claim you have "investigated thousands of crimes." In your limited, reserve experience, when and how have you investigated thousands of crimes?
12) You say, you taught a myriad of courses at Camp Pendleton. What and to whom? Give us some names and who?
13) Why exactly were you forced to leave the Sky Marshals?
Any one else have any questions to add here? Simple questions requiring one or two line answers.
Jim, we welcome your equal time response. But, please..one or two line answers? I will tell you right up front that I admire your time in the police and military reserves, and the Sky Marshalls. I also have to admire your writing skills, which tells me you have a high intelligence. I do still believe you are walking billboard of exaggerated, stretched claims and advertising. (But, so to is Timex watches and Volvos...you know?) Never has so little been made into so much.
I share the seminar marketing field with tens of other traveling seminar teachers. In a way we all work together to help bolster the indiviual out there. I have no burning animosity to you and we share some students and we also teach people who don't know each other. No burn, but you know, smell to me. Something stinks! Change my mind, Bubba. Answer these questions.
And again Jim, I have had nothing to do with that posting that on the POWNetwork. Zip. Zero. Nothing. But now that you have drawn me into this.....
Last edited by Sam Browning; 7/11/2008 10:06pm at .
They don't think it be how it is, but it do
Posted On:7/11/2008 1:11am
Style: lol yet again more Judo !
This should be easily and neatly taken care of with just a couple short quick posts over there .
* subscribe *
Originally Posted by ghost55
Violence is pretty uncommon in clubs in this area, and the dude didn't seem particularly hostile up until the moment he slapped me.
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
Posted On:7/11/2008 1:31am
Oh I predict it will drag on with much drama.
Posted On:7/11/2008 8:56am
The unfortunate thing is that the Wagner phenomena over at Black Belt is a parallel phenomena that reflect a few truths that are very sad realities.
First on a very general level: the average citizen who had an interest or hobby does not have the interest to be captivated by information that is geared towards an intelligent consumer. This is reflected in the dumbing down of magazines... everything from Scientific American to Black Belt magazine. ARticles are shorter, press releases are all over the place because they are quick contain empty intellectual calories and can keep a wandering distracted mind focused.
Sam and some others on this site know I used to write for the martial arts mags on occasion. I stopped. I would rather post here and have a decent dialogue on an issue like this than have printed material in a magazine that is written for retards. And I mean retards in the literal sense... there has been a slowing of growth in the printed word that represents the martial arts community.
Jim Wagner writes, as Hoc alludes to in a style that entertains. His actual technical work with weapons can not be taken seriously. Sensei Wigginton, one of my teachers, is well regarded in the types of defense that Wagner proclaims to teach and I wouldn't even ask him what he thinks of Jim, as I am quite sure he might maime me haha.
One look and one can see that this guy is a media creation. I always assume and know from working with people in jobs where one deals with violence, that the Jim Wagners of the world are given a little corner of the room and a few playtoys and everybody sort of goes by and smiles at them on occasion.
Calling Jim Wagner on his BS is appropriate. If Hoc manages to shake the foundations of Back Belt in the process all the better. But years ago real writers abandoned Black Belt for greener pastures. And the fact that they endorse Wagner is all the more reason to be very afraid of using anything this tyro presents as a fact.
Posted On:7/11/2008 9:37am
The argument surfaced on Blade Forums as well.
Jim Wagner, Game Over - BladeForums.com
Posted On:7/11/2008 9:49am
Hock contacted me after I sent a link to him, and he asked that I print the following.
"I have been accused of reporting Wagner to the POW network. This is the only reason why I am responding to the Wagner situation. I pretty much have ignored him otherwise."
Valiant Monk of Booze & War
Posted On:7/11/2008 10:16am
This is huge. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Sam.
Posted On:7/11/2008 10:24am
Style: Kempo-Goju Karate, BJJ
hmmm, interesting. I was wondering, could'nt intrested parties just call LAPD's open record to verify Wagner's claims( Wagner claims to have been LAPD, no?)
16 years till retirement.
Posted On:7/11/2008 10:35am
costa mesa, and then a reserve Orange County Sheriff. Would you like to make a contact for us big guy? :)
If so, I'll write up some questions if that will help.
Posted On:7/11/2008 11:38am
Given the current rise of RBSD articles in Black Belt, e.g., the Kelly McCann cover, the veracity of Wagner's credentials is important. However, the cynic in me says that the never ending battle for "market share" also might have a part in this. Wagner may be gilding the lily regarding his credentials, but, a legitimate vet like Hockheim leading the charge concerns me since his group has been more or less FMA/SE Asian MA based in their curriculum; as opposed to the RBSD material currently all the rage.
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