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Posted On:7/07/2008 12:09pm
Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing
thai massage is awesome, but most people outside of thailand do a crappy job. it's like a mix of assisted stretching (they put you in the boston crab, i **** you not) and massage. there is nothing like it.
acupuncture is great if they know what they are doing, especially if they use cupping, moxa (sp?), tui na and herbology all together. i would only go to an acupunturist who came well recommended, personally.
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Posted On:7/07/2008 12:10pm
Originally Posted by devil
You do realize that if you keep allowing others to throw you onto unmatted surfaces, all the chiropracters and massage therapists in the world aren't going to be able to fix you, right?
My expert medical advice is this.... The next time someone wants to throw you on the floor, tell them to go **** themselves.
WHATTYA MADE OF SUGAR????
Yes....I know. =)
Usually, we use mats when we are going to do a large amount of throws but for these instances, it didn't happen.
We were practicing for a demonstration we were doing, it was late after normal training session and it was kind of stupid of me to do it.
As for taking the throws on the ground:
either I was the uke the throw was being demonstated on or the other training partner didn't catch me.
Posted On:7/07/2008 2:14pm
Style: creonte on hiatus
JU, if the tennis ball hurted you then the knot is indeed very irritated. Incidentally I just had a conversation with my youngest sister. She has a back problem and was told not to abuse trigger point massage with a tennis ball on her piriformis. Apparently, that and other small muscles are too sensible and can get irritated if they are injured bad enough. That could be the case with you right now.
You will need someone to apply not only pressure (as you did with the tennis ball), but to stretch the tissue and whatever joints/ligaments need to be stretched.
I'm with Ming on the Thai massage thing... if you can find someone. Another type of massage therapist to look for is someone that does deep tissue/myofascial release massage. When you consult/shop around, ask specifically that you are looking for a type of sports massage, in particular deep tissue/myofascial release (and if possible, assisted stretching.)
My former massage therapist was great at that. She would actually grab the scapulas and move them and stretch the crap out of them. Very uncomfortable but effective.
Your wifey is correct regarding regular trips to a massage therapist. They are needed, just like chiros, specially if you do MA. How frequent, that will depend.
In the meantime, ice the **** out the affected area. Seriously. A trigger point is not just a knot. It's an inflamation of the muscle and the fascia. Ice it at least twice a day, 10-15 minutes to 25 minutes. Move the ice out every once in a while to minimize burning.
Sometimes I get these knots and painful points on my shoulders, shoulder blades and on my neck. Icying the **** out of them has worked well within hours and has reduced the number of times I have had to get a massage. ****, that's a lot of money being saved right there.
But see a massage therapist first dude.
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Posted On:7/07/2008 6:13pm
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah
So, I wake up a week ago on Wednesday and can't move my neck. I could *feel* this coming on for a couple of weeks and tried to do what I could to prevent it. The genesis of this is:
A few weeks ago I took over 100 throws onto an unmatted, carpeted floor and a week after, at a seminar, I took about two dozen throws onto the bare ground, all in the same spot, my right shoulder blade.
I developed a muscle knot deep along the spine of the scapula, I suspect the rhomboid muscle. I pestered my wife to give me back rubs nightly, put Tiger Balm and Tiger Balm patches and ThermaCare patches on there, tried the tennis ball myofascial release technique....nothing.
The knot caused stress onto my deltoids and trapezeus which caused the severe muscle guarding and finally, the tensing of my neck.
This happens to me from time to time. Pretty much just like you describe, except it is random and doesnt seem to be caused by any physical activity. My guess is it is more stress related than anything.
Here's what Ive found:
1) medical doctor refered me to a back specialist who wanted to drug me up ... not my cup of tea so I disregarded his advice.
2) chiropractor didnt help at all ... although the snap/crackle/pop sounds he twisted out of my back sounded kinda cool ... but no real benefit that I could tell.
3) massage and accupuncture speeds recovery time, though it isnt immediate. The lady I go to combines massage and accupunture over three days (1 hour sessions) ... I am usually near 100% a couple of days after that third session .... if you do this make sure you find someone who knows what they are doing and use clean new needles.
4) there is a very simple stretch that helps me a lot. Sit upright and relax as much as possible ... then turn head to left as far as possible and hold for 5 seconds ... alternate right and left this way several times. simple but effective (for me anyway).
Ad Hominem rocks.
Posted On:7/07/2008 6:36pm
Style: BJJ, mma
I get a deep sports massage about once every 6 months. I have to. Broken collar bone in grade 12 left my shoulder blade out of alignment, so now the whole side of my back is tight. This is on top of MA and a physical job.
I tell the guy (yes, i get a massage from a guy) to go as hard as as he can! It's torture, but it sure does the job.
I only get chiro when I feel my neck is funky. I can tell this cause it makes it hard to sleep. That's when I know its time for Chiro.
A warning though: Once I went in for Chiro and my neck hurt AFTER the session, not before. I should have gone back and told them to fix it, but I just avoided Chiro for a few years.
Posted On:7/08/2008 5:38am
Style: Wrestling, MT
Although never trying it myself I hear very good reports on ART (Active Release Techniques) massages. It is basically myofascial release but alot of athletes use it and comes recommened by very trustworthy sources
You can find a practioner on their website http://www.activerelease.com/providersearch.asp
Posted On:7/08/2008 9:15am
Style: Trad Ju Jitsu
I have had regular Acupuncture and it can be very effective. However, one thing I noticed is that on one occasion, a needle into constriction in my lower back just caused it to tighten further. A puzzle and it surprised the TCM (and Chinese doctor).
Had Massage by a bloke in London once - and once only (you know, he was OK but I'm not too used to being touched by a bloke). Anyway, I'd been doing a heavy weights session and was slightly tired (but not too much) and I was lying on one side while fiddling with the TV-Video kit when the act of lying on one side prompted the other side of my Chest to go into spasm and bring a lot of pressure to my Heart.
No matter how much I stretched out, it would not release. After 3 days, I went to the Sports Centre and asked for a massage specifically to combat the constriction. It didn't work but the masseur explained that the problem was caused by the overtraining and that muscles had gone into spasm and would try to get tighter. They would release eventually. He was right and it took about 3 weeks. Pressure to the Heart, that was a worrier.
Massage and Acupressure are legimately done in, say, Bali (where I was so relaxed I nearly fell asleep face first into my dinner. I excused myself, staggered back to villa and awoke refreshed next morning). Also, China, where a foot massage will be done fully clothed and then they will work your calves, thighs, spine, etc. Absolutely great and wholly honest. They've got fingers of steel. After some 10Ks on the Great Wall, I was reinvigorated.
I suggest you accept the spasm as being prompted by the heavy throws on a hard surface and wait for the body to release in its own way over Time.
Posted On:7/08/2008 10:25am
Style: Shorin Ryu
JU - As a Sports Massage therapist, I wholeheartedly recommend finding a good deep tissue / sports therapist (big surprise, huh?).
You need to find someone who does deep tissue, sports massage, and/or neuromuscular work. The ART that Raining Blood mentioned is usually called "PNF (proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation if you want to get OCD about it) or "muscle energy techniques". It's a combination of isometric contractions and assisted stretching. The stuff works like magic for most serious contractions. Forget Swedish (although most western-based massage has a lot of Swedish in it), hot stone, and all the other spa type stuff. You don't need a relaxation massage. What you need is someone who specialized in the therapeutic side of massage.
Two websites you can go to for references are
These are the two major professional associations (I have belonged to both at one time or another, currently in the ABMP) and both sites have a database where you can find therapists in whatever specialty in your area.
You may not get total relief after one session, in fact you may be sore after the first one. But hey - you're sore now, and at least you should get some range of motion back. But if you go once every week or ten days you should see some relief after the first couple of sessions.
And like Teh said - ice the **** out of it.
Last edited by senseipookie; 7/08/2008 10:29am at .
Posted On:7/09/2008 1:36pm
OK, I am a dumbass.
Just to get this out into the open.
Like I stated, two weeks ago, I woke up with the unmovable neck. Went to the chiro and he gave me my treatments and, when asked if I could train that night, suggested I take a few days off training much to the thrill of my wife. Went back a few days later for a second treatment and he suggested I give it until Monday, which was two days ago.
I got a total of three treatments in a week and a half, mostly ultrasound, electronic muscle contractions, slight rubbing and minor manuel adjusting. Overall after the second treatment, I'm feeling 100%, third treatment, I didn't feel like I needed it.
Monday rolls around, I got to training and all is humming along nicely, until I have to get thrown. I don't think anything of it, as I am feeling great. Guy goes to throw me, can't support my weight drops me and falls on top of me, driving his shoulder into my neck.
I utter and "oh, christ" and am hurt after. Left side of my neck is just stiff and sore and I wake up with reduced ROM. I just so happen to have an appointment at the chiro on Tuesday so I figure I will ask him about some of this other stuff.
He asks me what happens, I tell him and he just shakes his head. I get the electonic contractions, double ultrasound and when he comes into the room I ask him about deep muscle release sports massage and accupuncture. He tells me, "I can give you a couple of names and numbers of people that do both. I also do them here."
He gives me the traditional accupuncture with about 2 dozen needles and a nice rub down on both my scapulas and suggests "if you are insisting on going to train, don't get thrown for a couple of weeks."
I almost IMMEDIATELY felt better after the accupunture and even better after the massage.
Posted On:7/09/2008 2:41pm
Dude, seriously, avoid getting thrown or taken down. You ain't never gonna get better. Seriously.
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