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  1. namaste is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 10:27pm


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Questions regarding upright rows and chinups

    Upright rows:

    I love them, but the interwebs and my masseus says they are bad for my shoulder. What is an alternative exercise to work traps/neck/all that stuff?

    Chinups (pronated grip):

    If I do them with a very wide grip, does it exercise a certain muscle more than if I do them with a shoulder wide grip? if so, which one? and which is a better option? I like doing them wide but it means I can't do as many.
  2. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 11:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wasn't even sure what an upright row was, so I looked it up on ExRx... kind of a high pull minus the pull. They've got a note about them:

    Upright Row Safety

    A shoulder width grip is suggested when performing the upright row. The greater internal rotation required for a close grip upright row decreases the subacromial space (area between the greater tubercle of the humerus and acromioclavicular joint). This may potentially impinge the supraspinatus tendon and the subacromial bursa (a protective sac of fluid cushioning the bone from the tendon). A wider grip allows for more space between the shoulder joint and the head of the humerus allowing for more clearance of the underlying structures. For the same reason, when performing a one arm upright row, keep the elbow pointing directly to the side, instead of angling it slightly to the front. The subacromial space as well as other biomechanical and biometric factors vary from person to person so some individuals may be more prone to complications while others report no problems performing the narrower grip upright row. Also see Over Generalizations.
    Alternatives for upper traps that keep the shoulder in neutral position: dumbbell shrugs or trap bar shrugs (if you have the bar for them).

    Lateral raises or shoulder press might involve the traps as well, although ExRx says only middle and lower traps, so your mileage may vary.

    As far as grip variation goes, compare and contrast the synergists for chin-ups, close grip chin-ups, and underhand chin-ups... there are a few differences there, but I'd suspect it's mostly just differences in which ones are most heavily taxed. As far as which to do, I'd tend towards whichever one has the biggest range of motion = force output, but that's my own personal bias.
  3. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 12:38am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the pullups I think slightly wider than shoulders length apart is best. Same distance apart as when I bench, deadlift, or do anything involving a bar. It gives you the most ROM and keeps your arms in a natural position.

    Of course variations sometimes are always needed, but in general go with slightly further than shoulder's width apart.
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 9:53am

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jump shrugs and hise shrugs have put a great degree of size on my traps. For neck work, get a neck harness.

    There's no "better" option on chin grip width, just different ones. Use variety in your movements. I tend to switch between regular width chins, wide grip, and nuetral grip (with a v-bar handle).
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. GO-GO-GOGOPLATA is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 10:23am

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     Style: BJJ/Shorin-Ryu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For stacking on some mass to your traps and upper back, I'd recommend some full or partial deadlifts with either a bar or dumbells or even on a Smith machine for safety. Since you're partial to the upright row, try using a cable stack with a rope for a change.

    I-like most other regular lifters-vary my grip width on the chin ups and I tend to feel it more in the tops and outer sweeps of my lats with my hands closer together and more in the lower middle part of the lats with my hands far apart.
  6. Emevas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 10:30am

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Smith machine for safety on deadlifts? I don't quite see how that is possible.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 10:31am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    namaste, if you are having shoulder/neck problems, make sure to strengthen and stretch your rhomboids as well as always stretch the traps, neck as well as maintaining/improving both internal and external rotation flexibility on your shoulders.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 10:39am

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     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Smith machine for safety on deadlifts? I don't quite see how that is possible.
    I agree with that. In fact, the smith makes even more dangerous since the body and bar are not free to move freely and accomodate for the person's anatomy. For safety, the best option is always to reduce the weigth first and, on certain situations, reduce the distance travel second.

    Restricting the path the bar has to travel and force the body to accomodate for it is not. Certainly not when lifting stuff cold turkey off the ground or from pins on a rack.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. TheRuss is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/07/2008 6:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Smith machine for safety on deadlifts? I don't quite see how that is possible.
    Indeed. Anything that forces you away from your natural line of pull (like a Smith machine) is unsafe. And deadlifts are already the safest compound lift around (shin scraping notwithstanding) - if something goes wrong, just drop the bar.
  10. namaste is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/08/2008 12:39am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I switched to Stronglifts 5x5 about a month ago, (squat bench and deadlift all improved so far!) its got all the good stuff in it already, but I only feel like my traps are getting any work during deadlifts.

    I think jump shrugs might be the answer, gave them a shot and I felt it alot quicker than with normal shrugs, and my shoulder doesn't niggle afterwards like with upright rows.

    A neck harness you say...
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