*Spoiler Results UFC 86 Jackson vs Griffin.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 12:35pm

Originally Posted by Nathan McScary

I respectfully disagree. He stopped LHW prodigy Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, who many consider a top ten fighter. He also beat Rich Franklin, who fought at LHW on numerous occasions (not to mention Franklin is freakin' huge for a middle weight and probably weighs more than Machida to begin with). Also, he may not be top ten, but Stephan Bonner is definitly a notable LHW.

While we all use fightfinder, there is a useful bit of information you omitted from you summary of it.

Dates.

And for the poster after you, Soko was an unproven commodity despite his two stunning victories in Pride.

**Nathan McScary** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 3:20pm

Originally Posted by UpaLumpa

While we all use fightfinder, there is a useful bit of information you omitted from you summary of it.

Dates.

And for the poster after you, Soko was an unproven commodity despite his two stunning victories in Pride.

Yes, the fight's happened a while ago. However, if you want to use the whole "dates" mentality, it actually makes Lyoto look even better. Kengo Watanabe was Lyoto's first fight. At that point, Watanabe was a pancrase veteran with 17 pro fights with 8 loses. Bonner was Lyoto's second fight. At that point, Bonner was an accomplished golden gloves boxer and had had three pro MMA fights, all of which he won in the first round. Rich was only Lyoto's 3rd pro fight, whereas Franklin had already had over a dozen pro fights and was undefeated. By the time they fought, Franklin had already competed in the UFC on several occasions. Even if you go to the other extreme in the case of Tito and agrue that Tito is past his prime, there is still the fact that Tito is a former UFC champion who hadn't lost to anyone other than Liddell in five years.

Also, Soko may have very few fights, but he is still widely considered a top ten fighter. Consecutively, KOing two top ranked fighters tends to do that.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 3:37pm

Originally Posted by Nathan McScary

Yes, the fight's happened a while ago. However, if you want to use the whole "dates" mentality, it actually makes Lyoto look even better. Kengo Watanabe was Lyoto's first fight. At that point, Watanabe was a pancrase veteran with 17 pro fights with 8 loses. Bonner was Lyoto's second fight. At that point, Bonner was an accomplished golden gloves boxer and had had three pro MMA fights, all of which he won in the first round. Rich was only Lyoto's 3rd pro fight, whereas Franklin had already had over a dozen pro fights and was undefeated. By the time they fought, Franklin had already competed in the UFC on several occasions. Even if you go to the other extreme in the case of Tito and agrue that Tito is past his prime, there is still the fact that Tito is a former UFC champion who hadn't lost to anyone other than Liddell in five years.

Also, Soko may have very few fights, but he is still widely considered a top ten fighter. Consecutively, KOing two top ranked fighters tends to do that.

Bonnar was no one at the time and an MMA novice (whether he is even top-20 now is a different issue). I really wouldn't consider him a notable win now and certainly not then. Franklin and Tito are legitimate wins (despite Franklin primarily being a MW), I'm not disputing that.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, with this series of posts, about Lyoto and title shots. Just the relevance of some of his wins to such.

**noonyez** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 10:41am

Machida has said that he thinks other fighters will get a title shot before he does.

**Kentucky Fried Chokin** · Posted On: 7/14/2008 4:14pm

Originally Posted by Nathan McScary

I respectfully disagree. He stopped LHW prodigy Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou, who many consider a top ten fighter. He also beat Rich Franklin, who fought at LHW on numerous occasions (not to mention Franklin is freakin' huge for a middle weight and probably weighs more than Machida to begin with). Also, he may not be top ten, but Stephan Bonner is definitly a notable LHW.

Sokoudjou is just an up-and-comer. I would hardly consider him a prodigy. Who considers him a top ten fighter?Rich Franklin is no longer LHW. Bonner is only notable because of one fight (which he lost).