Hey Tangent, no one gives a **** if you "think" TKD is worse for the knees than other sports. Why don't you stop pulling **** out of your ass and get us some actual peer-reviewed medical journal studies that say TKD is bad for the knees, preferrably ones which specify which aspects of practice are bad for the knees.
Hey, no fair...expecting actual research.
Originally Posted by Errant108
I went to PubMed to search for any science literature on Taekwondo injuries. Here are the abstracts from the only 2 articles relating to Taekwondo and injuries on PubMed. One article is from Journal of Biomechanics and the other is from some german sports medicine jounal:
J Biomech. 1992 Oct;25(10):1247-8.
Thoracic injury potential of basic competition taekwondo kicks.
Serina ER, Lieu DK.
Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of California, Berkeley 94720.
A major concern in competition taekwondo is the injury potential posed by many of the powerful kicks used. An investigation of the kinetics of four kicks frequently used in competition was performed with high speed video. Velocities were measured, and energy was calculated. Typical values for basic swing kicks were 15 ms-1 and 200 J. Basic thrust kicks possessed 45% less velocity but 28% more energy than swing kicks. Linkage models were developed to simulate the motion and kinetics of the kicking leg. Injury potential was evaluated through thoracic compression and viscous criterion models. These models predict a significant probability of serious injury with all kicks, with thoracic deflections from 3 to 5 cm and peak viscous tolerance values from 0.9-1.4 ms-1, when no protective body equipment is used.
PMID: 1744152 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Sportverletz Sportschaden. 1999 Mar;13(1):17-21.Links
[15 years insurance statistics of incidents and accident types of combat sports injuries of the Rhineland-Pfalz Federal Sports Club]
[Article in German]
Raschka C, Parzeller M, Banzer W.
Abt. für Sportmedizin, Institut für Sportwissenschaften der Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/M.
The primary intention of this study is the grouping of sports accidents, being described by the athletes in their own words in a classification system of specific accident classes with regard to specific motions and topography. The investigation is based on the data of the sports insurance Gerling-Konzern during a 15-year period in Rhineland Palatinate (1981-1995). The study is based on the insurance documents and clinical protocols if available. 137 accident protocols were related to this 15-year period including weight lifting (n = 1) and martial arts (n = 136). Listed in hierarchical order we received the following results: judo (n = 47), karate (n = 44), wrestling (n = 22), taekwondo (n = 9), boxing (n = 7), ju-jutsu (n = 5), fencing (n = 1) and aikido (n = 1). In accordance to accident types there were no sex related differences. As special preventive measures we suggest the use of protective mouthguards and solid glasses, proprioceptive training and physiological taping for knee, ankle and elbow joints.
PMID: 10407960 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
These articles do not address (or note) any particular issue with unusual knee strain in Taekwondo.
Here are a few more aritcles from another PubMed search. In particular, the third article (Canadian TKD championships...) discusses the most common Taekwondo injuries. If you go to PubMed you can access the third article in full for free. Knee injuries are not noted as being particularly prevalent. Foot injuries are first in frequency. The primary injury from roundhouse kicks are concussions and these are considered a more serious problem.
Knee injuries are not considered frequent or problematic in Taekwondo.
1: J Sci Med Sport. 2007 Aug;10(4):219-26. Epub 2006 Aug 17.
Pediatric martial arts injuries presenting to Emergency Departments, United States 1990-2003.
Yard EE, Knox CL, Smith GA, Comstock RD.
Center for Injury Research and Policy, Columbus Children's Research Institute, Children's Hospital, Ohio, USA. YardE@ccri.net
Although an estimated 6.5 million United States (US) children aged 6-17 practiced a martial art in 2004, there have been no nationally representative studies comparing pediatric injuries among the three most popular disciplines, karate, taekwondo, and judo. Describe pediatric martial arts injuries presenting to a representative sample of US Emergency Departments (EDs) from 1990 to 2003. We reviewed all martial arts injuries captured by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission's (CPSC), National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS). An estimated 128,400 children </=17 years were treated in US EDs for martial arts-related injuries from 1990 to 2003. Injured tended to be male (73.0%) and had a mean age of 12.1 years. Most injuries were attributed to karate (79.5%). The most common mechanism of injury was being kicked (25.6%), followed by falling (20.6%) and kicking (18.0%). The majority of injuries occurred to the lower leg/foot/ankle (30.1%) and hand/wrist (24.5%). The most common injury diagnoses were sprains/strains (29.3%), contusions/abrasions (27.8%), and fractures (24.6%). Participants in judo sustained significantly higher proportions of shoulder/upper arm injuries than karate (IPR=4.31, 95% CI: 2.84-6.55) or taekwondo (IPR=9.75, 95% CI: 3.53-26.91) participants. There were also higher proportions of neck injuries sustained by judo participants compared to karate (IPR=4.73, 95% CI: 1.91-11.70) or taekwondo (IPR=4.17, 95% CI: 1.02-17.06) participants. Pediatric martial arts injuries differ by discipline. Understanding these injury patterns can assist with the development of discipline-specific preventive interventions.
PMID: 16914371 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
1: Med Sport Sci. 2005;48:59-73.
Martial arts injuries.
School of Health Sciences, Science University of Malaysia, Kubang Kerian, Kelantan 16150, Malaysia. email@example.com
OBJECTIVE: To review the current evidence for the epidemiology of pediatric injuries in martial arts. DATA SOURCES: The relevant literature was searched using SPORT DISCUS (keywords: martial arts injuries, judo injuries, karate injuries, and taekwondo injuries and ProQuest (keywords: martial arts, taekwondo, karate, and judo), as well as hand searches of the reference lists. MAIN RESULTS: In general, the absolute number of injuries in girls is lower than in boys. However, when expressed relative to exposure, the injury rates of girls are higher. Injuries by body region reflect the specific techniques and rules of the martial art. The upper extremities tend to get injured more often in judo, the head and face in karate and the lower extremities in taekwondo. Activities engaged in at the time of injury included performing a kick or being thrown in judo, while punching in karate, and performing a roundhouse kick in taekwondo. Injury type tends to be martial art specific with sprains reported in judo and taekwondo and epistaxis in karate. Injury risk factors in martial arts include age, body weight and exposure. CONCLUSIONS: Preventive measures should focus on education of coaches, referees, athletes, and tournament directors. Although descriptive research should continue, analytical studies are urgently needed.
PMID: 16247253 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
• Pediatric martial arts injuries presenting to Emergency Departments, United States 1990-2003. [J Sci Med Sport. 2007]
• Injuries in martial arts: a comparison of five styles. [Br J Sports Med. 2005]
• Incidence and nature of karate injuries. [Joint Bone Spine. 2006]
• Acute injuries in soccer, ice hockey, volleyball, basketball, judo, and karate: analysis of national registry data. [BMJ. 1995]
• Head and neck injuries in young taekwondo athletes. [J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1999]
1: BMC Musculoskelet Disord. 2004 Jul 27;5:22. Links
Injuries at the Canadian National Tae Kwon Do Championships: a prospective study.
Kazemi M, Pieter W.
Department of Clinical Studies, Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. firstname.lastname@example.org
BACKGROUND: The purpose of this prospective study was to assess the injury rates in male and female adult Canadian Taekwondo athletes relative to total number of injuries, type and body part injured. METHODS: Subjects (219 males, 99 females) participated in the 1997 Canadian National Taekwondo Championships in Toronto, Canada. Injuries were recorded on an injury form to documents any injury seen and treatment provided by the health care team. These data were later used for this study. The injury form describes the athlete and nature, site, severity and mechanism of the injury. RESULTS: The overall rate of injuries was 62.9/1,000 athlete-exposures (A-E). The males (79.9/1,000 A-E) sustained significantly more injuries than the females (25.3/1,000 A-E). The lower extremities were the most commonly injured body region in the men (32.0 /1,000 A-E), followed by the head and neck (18.3/1,000 A-E). Injuries to the spine (neck, upper back, low back and coccyx) were the third most often injured body region in males (13.8/1,000 A-E). All injuries to the women were sustained to the lower extremities. The most common type of injury in women was the contusion (15.2/1,000 A-E). However, men's most common type of injury was the sprain (22.8/1,000 A-E) followed by joint dysfunction (13.7/1,000 A-E). Concussions were only reported in males (6.9/1,000 A-E). Compared to international counterparts, the Canadian men and women recorded lower total injury rates. However, the males incurred more cerebral concussions than their American colleagues (4.7/1,000 A-E). CONCLUSIONS: Similar to what was found in previous studies, the current investigation seems to suggest that areas of particular concern for preventive measures involve the head and neck as well as the lower extremities. This is the first paper to identify spinal joint dysfunction.
PMID: 15279679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I have no conclusive data , but "duck walking" cannot be good for your knees . Does anyone have any information pertaining to the activity ( I don't really want to call it an exercise ) .
Can't find pictures to help describe ... sorry .
Originally Posted by ghost55
“I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
Injuries in martial arts: a comparison of five styles.
British Journal of Sports Medicine. 39(1):29-33, January 2005.
Zetaruk, M N 1; Violan, M A 2; Zurakowski, D 3; Micheli, L J 3
Objective: To compare five martial arts with respect to injury outcomes.
Methods: A one year retrospective cohort was studied using an injury survey. Data on 263 martial arts participants (Shotokan karate, n = 114; aikido, n = 47; tae kwon do, n = 49; kung fu, n = 39; tai chi, n = 14) were analysed. Predictor variables included age, sex, training frequency (<=3 h/week v >3 h/week), experience (<3 years v >=3 years), and martial art style. Outcome measures were injuries requiring time off from training, major injuries (>=7 days off), multiple injuries (>=3), body region, and type of injury. Logistic regression was used to determine odds ratios (OR) and confidence intervals (CI). Fisher's exact test was used for comparisons between styles, with a Bonferroni correction for multiple comparisons.
Results: The rate of injuries, expressed as percentage of participants sustaining an injury that required time off training a year, varied according to style: 59% tae kwon do, 51% aikido, 38% kung fu, 30% karate, and 14% tai chi. There was a threefold increased risk of injury and multiple injury in tae kwon do than karate (p<0.001). Subjects >=18 years of age were at greater risk of injury than younger ones (p<0.05; OR 3.95; CI 1.48 to 9.52). Martial artists with at least three years experience were twice as likely to sustain injury than less experienced students (p<0.005; OR 2.46; CI 1.51 to 4.02). Training >3 h/week was also a significant predictor of injury (p<0.05; OR 1.85; CI 1.13 to 3.05). Compared with karate, the risks of head/neck injury, upper extremity injury, and soft tissue injury were all higher in aikido (p<0.005), and the risks of head/neck, groin, and upper and lower extremity injuries were higher in tae kwon do (p<0.001). No sex differences were found for any of the outcomes studied.
Conclusions: There is a higher rate of injury in tae kwon do than Shotokan karate. Different martial arts have significantly different types and distribution of injuries. Martial arts appear to be safe for young athletes, particularly those at beginner or intermediate levels.
(C) 2005 BMJ Publishing Group Ltd and British Association of Sport and Exercise Medicine
But guys...are you sure about all this?
Tangent "feels" that TKD is bad for the knees & he "thinks" that it's worse than other combat sports...doesn't that count for something?!?
I guess I would chuckle
and say "perception is reality"?
except that anectdotal evidence (some of which I was guilty of presenting earlier) can be a very limited means of perception.
and ... perception is often experimentally proven to be false, often frighteningly so
Perception is reality?
But...but...if what one perceives isn't real, then...?
Originally Posted by JohnnyFive
I always love when people forget to ask people in the know, before they do a study. What Kung Fu did they use? Xingyi, Kung Fu San Soo, Lima Lama, Shaolin, Wing Chun ( the percentage would be lower, Wushu (yes people don't know the difference) Mantis?
I bet if you threw Kyokushin in there the injury rate would be higher for Karate.
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