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  1. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2008 4:29pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas
    I was taking a jab at you for railing against those darned hobbyists, reminding you that in another person's eyes you might be a hobbyist yourself.
    I caught that but I would still beat the **** out of every thai chick that does kickboxing ;) Pick them up and snap them in half like predator would snap a chestburster.


    I think you believe everything in your above post (which is admirable), but I also get the sense (from the post before) that it's not just about poor poor newbies getting bad training, but that yuppie MT gyms devalue, to some degree, your own MT training and that if yuppie MT becomes the norm it will spoil your fighter image, or at least create a lot of extra work for you, since others will no longer assume off the bat that your training is real. If I'm wrong, then I will apologize, but I'm generally good at reading subtext.
    I dont care about my image in relation to muay thai, I don't even attach my training to "muay thai" because "muay thai" just sounds like you wanna be Ong bak or you watched a couple UFC's and started a "muay thai" class. When people ask I'm a "kickboxer". "Kickboxer" doesnt sound faddish, it sounds like someone who actually competes.

    My only real concern is the fact that every fuckin gym within reasonable driving distance (not very far in ATL traffic, ha) kinda sucks for serious kickboxing training. Pretty much it's time to find someone that really knows what they're doing and throw **** tons of extra money at them for private lessons on top of the gym fee.

    It's almost insulting to be taking part in the "advanced class" being taught by a guy who has half the training time and 1/4th the fights that i do.

    Anyways, at least my recently acquired (and first) student will have it better, Free private training in a park with someone that knows what they're doing and also knows how to explain it to others, that's the bomb.
    Last edited by Anna Kovacs; 7/05/2008 4:34pm at .
  2. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2008 7:20pm

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    why free?
  3. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2008 7:30pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because just from looking at him move when he does swordwork I can tell that he'll pick things up quickly. Also because he said he might be interested in fighting one day and having him do so successfully under my banner would be quite the feather in my cap IMO.


    He offered to pay me for my time but I declined. I'm more interested in finding out just how good a teacher I can be when it comes to this stuff then collecting money. If it turns out that I actually teach well then I have a student trained exclusively by me to show off to others who might prospectively pay. Might even manage to convince a gym somewhere to let me teach.
  4. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2008 8:02pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    Well, Fairtex had the no sparring option.

    Fairtex also offers the "we'll train you and set you up to fight someone who's going to throw the fight for $$$ so you can get the real "I fought in thailand" braggable experience" option.

    As do many gyms aimed at tourists.

    In fact, i hate people that fight in thailand because then their whole life revolves around the one time they fought a paid can IN THAILAND. Thus their one fight in thailand is more meaningful then the dozen or so you've had stateside. These are usually the type of people that get uppity when you call it "kickboxing" or refer to them as "kickboxers" and insist that "muay thai is not kickboxing" and that they are "thai boxers"

    Oh well, at least I can still pull the "cagefighter" card if I have to one up them, and even better, soon I'll be able to pull the "full contact vale tudo stickfighter" card and then they'll all be so owned.
    Last edited by Anna Kovacs; 7/05/2008 8:10pm at .
  5. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 12:53am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But we ARE thai boxers, kickboxing is for girls. It is a very similar sport but if your fights contain clinching and elbows then why call it something it isn't?

    I agree with your comment about the 2 month training camp 'fighters' from Thailand but it is not like they get any more respect from other people who train, its just the MT equivalent of a TMA blackbelt for boasting to people who probably believe in wing chun's deadliest anyway.

    There is a serious side to fights in Thailand too of course, you could always go over and do a 10 fight tour with the local girls over a couple of months then head home. You'd no longer have to hear people's boasting anymore about their 1 fight.
    Last edited by Sang; 7/06/2008 12:57am at .
  6. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 1:47am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang
    But we ARE thai boxers, kickboxing is for girls. It is a very similar sport but if your fights contain clinching and elbows then why call it something it isn't?
    I will never attach myself to muay thai to the point where I refer to myself as a "thai boxer". It just sounds so cheesy to me. I dont even look remotely thai so people can tell I'm half lying just at a glance.

    Anyways, the sport is based by far on kicking and boxing, thus it will always be just another kickboxing ruleset in my mind


    There is a serious side to fights in Thailand too of course, you could always go over and do a 10 fight tour with the local girls over a couple of months then head home. You'd no longer have to hear people's boasting anymore about their 1 fight.
    It'd be so lame for me to fight in thailand and beat up a bunch of 115lb girls that are barely 5 feet tall. Sure, I could talk it up, but since I could never show the videos to anyone and feel anything but totally embaressed about it the fights would be worthless to me on a personal level.
  7. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 2:10am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We're pretty attached to our 'thai boxing', although i do admit it is pretty similar to 'football' players getting upset about people calling it soccer, not worth arguing over. Strangely enough over here most people know what MT is, but not many know kickboxing. When i had to buy some new shorts i figured it'd be easier to describe them as kickboxing shorts to staff and nobody knew what i was talking about.


    Yeah the weight might be a problem, they are pretty tiny girls. I know of a MT womens fighter who trains and competes almost solely in Thailand who happens to be heavier than yourself and i don't think she fights people who weight less than herself. I'll try and find her name, she was on one of our local shows recently.

    You should at least come over to Australia/NZ and do some fights :), our girls here take it very seriously.
  8. octaviousbp is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 2:29am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, a few things. Kat, I think you’re over simplifying a bit. There are some slackers who come here for the image and boasting rights, and there are people who come here to bust their asses off. In my three years, I have seen plenty of both.

    Secondly, while in some cases there are fixed fights, in most cases, IMO, the fix isn’t on… the Thai simply makes up his mind in the beginning if he’s going to make a go of it or not. He gets paid regardless of the outcome.

    The thing is, if he is obviously muay lom-ing it and the crowd catches on, then the promoter might not be too happy. I have cornered dozens of Thai vs. Foreigner fights (on the Thai side) and know for a fact that the fix wasn’t in for our guys. Up until last week, we were on a 5 fight win streak over farang, some of whom outweighed our guys by a significant amount. I have also seen severe mismatches the other way, where the promoter has severely outclassed the foreigner in a match up. On the same card as my last fight, there was a German guy having his first fight against a veteran Thai. The fight didn’t last beyond the first… just a poor match-up. The majority of the fights here (in the North) of Thai vs. Farang are won by Thais. It is really hard to win a decision. Might be different in the South.

    It used to rub me the wrong way when people come here “to train Muay Thai”, party most of the time, have one fight (that they are just happy to get over) and then run to the tattoo shop the next day to get “nak muay” tattooed on their stomachs. But whatever, it’s their bag… if that’s what makes them happy and gives them a sense of self-worth, so be it.

    This has turned into an ill thought-out rant, but I hope it makes some sense. If not, I blame the Dengue.
  9. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 3:27am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sang
    We're pretty attached to our 'thai boxing', although i do admit it is pretty similar to 'football' players getting upset about people calling it soccer, not worth arguing over. Strangely enough over here most people know what MT is, but not many know kickboxing. When i had to buy some new shorts i figured it'd be easier to describe them as kickboxing shorts to staff and nobody knew what i was talking about.
    Over here "muay thai" has "martial art" connotations. While "kickboxing" is more of an "athlete" thing. I'd prefer to attach myself to athletics rather then "martial artists" because i feel that the phrase "martial art" has been horribly corrupted and i don't like all the baggage that people attach to the phrase "martial arts".



    Yeah the weight might be a problem, they are pretty tiny girls. I know of a MT womens fighter who trains and competes almost solely in Thailand who happens to be heavier than yourself and i don't think she fights people who weight less than herself. I'll try and find her name, she was on one of our local shows recently.
    I would be a little surprised if she's heavier then I am and finding thai chicks to fight her.

    Though on that note I did crack 139 today. 135 has always seemed a "sweet spot" for finding fights so I'm glad to see that it's now in my cutting range.

    You should at least come over to Australia/NZ and do some fights :), our girls here take it very seriously.
    I'm sure I will one day.
  10. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2008 4:22am

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    Quote Originally Posted by octaviousbp
    Okay, a few things. Kat, I think you’re over simplifying a bit. There are some slackers who come here for the image and boasting rights, and there are people who come here to bust their asses off. In my three years, I have seen plenty of both.
    I can believe that, certainly I want to come train in thailand at some point and I'll set out to impress. I'm just telling you what I tend to run into the most over here. Over there you've got more of a mixed bag because you see it all. I tend to only see the ones who make sure you know that they've fought in thailand (or at least trained there).

    Secondly, while in some cases there are fixed fights, in most cases, IMO, the fix isn’t on… the Thai simply makes up his mind in the beginning if he’s going to make a go of it or not. He gets paid regardless of the outcome. The thing is, if he is obviously muay lom-ing it and the crowd catches on, then the promoter might not be too happy. I have cornered dozens of Thai vs. Foreigner fights (on the Thai side) and know for a fact that the fix wasn’t in for our guys. Up until last week, we were on a 5 fight win streak over farang, some of whom outweighed our guys by a significant amount. I have also seen severe mismatches the other way, where the promoter has severely outclassed the foreigner in a match up. On the same card as my last fight, there was a German guy having his first fight against a veteran Thai. The fight didn’t last beyond the first… just a poor match-up. The majority of the fights here (in the North) of Thai vs. Farang are won by Thais. It is really hard to win a decision. Might be different in the South.
    I'm not suggesting that all fights are fixed by any means. I'm sure some gyms are more into that business then others but it's definitely out there. Then I guess there are probably cases of the art of fixing without fixing. You know, the whole lopsided match up thing. Putting some poor farmer in the ring who's hardly trained, inflate his credentials and then set him up vs a determined "farang" opponent.


    It used to rub me the wrong way when people come here “to train Muay Thai”, party most of the time, have one fight (that they are just happy to get over) and then run to the tattoo shop the next day to get “nak muay” tattooed on their stomachs. But whatever, it’s their bag… if that’s what makes them happy and gives them a sense of self-worth, so be it.
    That's not the bullshido spirit. You can always say "if that's what makes them happy" about anything MA related. But if what makes someone happy is de-legitimizing one of the few martial arts that still has a leg of legitimacy to stand on then that's a tough pill for me to swallow on a personal level.

    Perhaps you haven't felt the effects since you're over in the thick of the sport where things usually have to be real because your success or failure directly affects how well your family gets to eat.

    But over here "muay thai"is rapidly attracting the same unmotivated and incompetent crowd that flocked to karate and kung fu before. The "martial artsy" types that'll spar relatively lightly but will never step in a ring. This is having a direct result on the type of training typically offered. Even just three years ago, my first two MT coaches, though they weren't the greatest instructors on a technical level, i felt like they were really trying to toughen me up and prepare me to hit and be hit with intent to do damage and even if other people didnt seem as serious about becoming good as I was they still had to do the same class where you're taking an assload of kicks to the thigh and you've got someone kneeing you full force through not much of a pad while pulling your head down hard during the clinch so that you get a strong neck to hopefully resist getting kneed in the face. The class felt like it assumed that eventually everyone was going to fight.

    But that's not the impression I tend to get from classes anymore. Now the impression I get is much less "martial" in spirit.

    Maybe that's jaded me's perspective vs bright eyed newbie me's perspective coming into conflict. But i can only call it like i see it.
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