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  1. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 2:42am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many MT and boxing gyms over here are bringing in a 'singlet' system and i think it is a better idea than this. Instead of rewarding rank based on ability (everyone already knows where everyone stands on the totem pole from sparring), it is used as a symbol of attendance/loyalty to the gym and gives certain goal orientated people something to strive for.

    I think it will only be 5 or so years before we get the best of both worlds over here, Mcdojo MT with more money to the trainers and popularity while still maintaining the 'aliveness'.
  2. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 2:45am

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you want a rank in muay thai or boxing, fight for it.
  3. jubei33 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 5:18am


     Style: Boxing, Solar Ray Attack

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah fight for it...

    On the other hand this is a decent, albeit meaningless, way to encourage people who do it for the exercise, imo. Its all about that feeling of accomplishment that keeps people coming back. If they don't spar or like fighting, then they'll probably dig this.
  4. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 5:31am

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh i know all about it, I've already been in muay thai classes with belts and sashes. At my first MT gym I was a reluctant purple belt, the highest ranking student in the class. I hated wearing that thing but it was made mandatory near the end of my tenure there. At my second MT gym they handed out sashes. So yeh, I know how excited people get when they're up for their green sash or whatever. I also know that it leads to a muay thai class being taught like a karate class where you hit thai pads for a few rounds.

    Ultimately I feel these things attract people who take the fight out of a style.

    The demand for muay thai for hobbyist practioners is now so high that a lot of muay thai instructors are the guys at any given gym who have had 3 kickboxing matches and been training 2 years.

    That and good fighters with dollar signs for eyes mcdojo up their programs, dumb down their training and make it so that anyone can do it.

    Some hobbies aren't for everyone. This is a contact sport. If it doesn't stay that way, then it's gonna be karate with poofy shorts in about 5 years.

    Wait and see.
  5. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 6:06am

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not that I don't acknowledge the fact that the hobbiests who will never see a ring or cage from anywhere but the outside pay for all the nice equipment and air conditioning and the ring and bags that I do so enjoy.

    But when I see a gym advertising that they offer a muay thai class with a "no sparring" option popping up on the targeted ads of my myspace account I can't help but feel like the price for nice facilities is increasingly not worth the decreased quality of instruction.
  6. MMAMickey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 8:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Boxing.MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KidSpatula
    I don't really like this "formula" for teaching students. Not that I disagree with certain aspects of it (like making sure you have down your stance before putting more things on your plate, people often never learn the value of balance in favor of trying to best figure out how to land that overhand right/uppercut/whatever), but having a formula for teaching students like this seems to really take away from the idea of individualized training.

    My old boxing coach would look at each student and determine what they, in particular, needed to focus on and pound it into their skulls. He had this one guy focusing on really getting down keeping his arms relaxed when throwing punches for at least several weeks. And he would stand their chewing on his tooth pick really driving it into the guy during the classes.
    that's the mark of a good coach. i went into boxing with a friend of mine who is really tall whereas im really not lol. the coach spent a great deal of time teaching us completely different tactics, and as his club has an impressive amatuer record in the 8 years its been around it seems he knows what he's talking about.

    i agree that the levels cause the training to lack individuality as almost nobody has an identical style to another fighter. It would probably be better for students to be taken through the system individually and have minimal class separations, for example beginner, intermediate and advanced.

    also, making people wait so long to spar could cause students to lose interest. somethign some beginners do at my gym is get put in against a more experienced boxer and allowed to do light contact sparring. the more experienced boxer obviously is only there to present minimal resisitance and prevent a brawl which often happens if you put two compettitive beginners together.
  7. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2008 10:14am


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Not that I don't acknowledge the fact that the hobbiests who will never see a ring or cage from anywhere but the outside pay for all the nice equipment and air conditioning and the ring and bags that I do so enjoy.

    But when I see a gym advertising that they offer a muay thai class with a "no sparring" option popping up on the targeted ads of my myspace account I can't help but feel like the price for nice facilities is increasingly not worth the decreased quality of instruction.
    Well, Fairtex had the no sparring option, but they never made you feel you were becoming a kickboxer without full contact sparring. You were just getting a workout, and the people that were serious had to do a medical test and get a license for sparring. This was a while back, and they may have introduced belts,etc. You could spar full contact without headshots, and kick-spar, but unless you were delusional, you knew that it wasn't the real deal, just a hobby.

    I wouldn't worry Anna, there are always going to be shiny yuppie gyms, and there will always be the hard core 'hood gyms, where young guys, and some gals, dream of fighting for a title. Never the twain shall meet.
    "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross
  8. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2008 12:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if hungry Thai kids fighting for money to support their families are losing sleep that nowadays American girls with rich families to take care of them are fighting & training MT for the joy of it at fancy-smancy gyms.

    I doubt it, so probably no one needs to lose sleep either if somewhere a yuppie is getting a blue belt in light-sparring MT. It's better they do than sit on a couch watching awful TV shows like most people. People can always seek out harder training after they've gotten their feet wet in the shallow end of the pool.
  9. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/04/2008 5:50pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I suspect you'd be surprised at how hard it is to find a non-mcodjoed up gym with even minimal equipment (boxing ring required with bags and space to move around them). and a coach that both wants his students to be good fighters and can competently pass on his knowledge.

    when it gets to the point where "yuppies with belts in muay thai" are the norm of the style, then that creates a very serious problem where gyms doing the real thing can't get anyone to come in the door.

    Yall seem to be under the impression that MA newbs can distinguish good training and bad training, they cannot. They will train at a place for 3 years thinking they're learning the real muay thai because their coach trained and fought competitively in thailand and is a nice guy.

    But 3 years later they still cant throw a jab or a proper kick and they dont even KNOW that they suck.

    You also seem to be under the impression that most people walk in the door knowing that they want to be a fighter. That's also not true, most people stumble into a gym that supposedly trains fighters and sign up to get in shape and then maybe decide to start fighting one day if their coach approaches them about it or if it just gets in their blood.

    To many people are are taken in by subpar training that they think is the real thing and it gets **** all messed up.

    I swear, I've seen it in person, and I see the virus multiplying fast to keep up with demand now that everyone wants that BJJ and that Moo Tie. People that could be good trainers are following the dollars and dumbing **** down and people that shouldn't be teaching because they've less then 2 years experience and maybe 3 fights, are.

    Thats why at every event you go to it's almost always the same gyms that actually send fighters, especially in muay thai. When new people come into the sport it's usually from the same gyms that all the people you already knew came from.
  10. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/05/2008 12:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think I was arguing against anything you said in the above. I was taking a jab at you for railing against those darned hobbyists, reminding you that in another person's eyes you might be a hobbyist yourself.

    I think you believe everything in your above post (which is admirable), but I also get the sense (from the post before) that it's not just about poor poor newbies getting bad training, but that yuppie MT gyms devalue, to some degree, your own MT training and that if yuppie MT becomes the norm it will spoil your fighter image, or at least create a lot of extra work for you, since others will no longer assume off the bat that your training is real. If I'm wrong, then I will apologize, but I'm generally good at reading subtext.

    P.S. Most things have multiple causes. The same gyms producing fighters that compete does not (necessarily) mean there are no other trainers giving good training in the area, but a gym that is known for producing winning competitors will attract other people who want to compete.
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