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  1. Mas is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 5:42pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    This is true. However, it still takes on average about 5 years of consistent training for most people to get a black belt in the US in just about every Japanese martial art. Whereas in Japan you usually get it in 1-2 years.

    It's more of a difference of perception of the black belt than it is training time.
    I don't even know where I was going with my line of thought, you're right though of course, in the US BB is a sign of proficiency; while other places it means other things.

  2. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 5:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I see his point though.

    TKD is on EVERY street corner. Judo is hard to find in many place.
    Goddam, Newport, AR has a TKD school. (Google Map it).
    So its exposure leads to people signing up for lack of anything better.
    If there was a Judo school near me (closest is 40 minutes one way, other is 35) then I would take it.
    Problem is, many Judoka dont feel that the MA's are necessarily a "get rich quick" endeavor. So they tend to undersell themselves and charge less.
    They also tend to keep the quality high.
    This means less BB's and less schools.
  3. RaiNnyX4 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:00pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    I see his point though.

    TKD is on EVERY street corner. Judo is hard to find in many place.
    Goddam, Newport, AR has a TKD school. (Google Map it).
    So its exposure leads to people signing up for lack of anything better.
    If there was a Judo school near me (closest is 40 minutes one way, other is 35) then I would take it.
    Problem is, many Judoka dont feel that the MA's are necessarily a "get rich quick" endeavor. So they tend to undersell themselves and charge less.
    They also tend to keep the quality high.
    This means less BB's and less schools.
    It has been brought up before in the Judo community to allow for brown belts to start teaching which for more dissemination of Judo. I don't think this would really cure the problem but it's a start. I mean, what percentage of BJJ instructors are black belts? From what I've heard, there are quite a few browns, purples, and even blue belts running programs. You don't have to be an expert to teach. You just need to have an understanding of the techniques and the ability to convey this to others. Hell, I ran a University Judo club as a 4th Kyu and our sponsoring Judo club was quite impressed with what I was able to accomplish.
  4. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:01pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At the kodokan there are no intermediate belts for seniors, are there? From what I understand it's just white belt -> Black belt.
  5. RaiNnyX4 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:03pm


     Style: Aikido/Judo/BJJ/Naginata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmeat
    At the kodokan there are no intermediate belts for seniors, are there? From what I understand it's just white belt -> Black belt.
    They still have Kyu ranks but colored belts generally aren't used in Japan. So yes, you almost always go from a white belt to a black belt.
  6. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:05pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    It has been brought up before in the Judo community to allow for brown belts to start teaching which for more dissemination of Judo. I don't think this would really cure the problem but it's a start. I mean, what percentage of BJJ instructors are black belts? From what I've heard, there are quite a few browns, purples, and even blue belts running programs. You don't have to be an expert to teach. You just need to have an understanding of the techniques and the ability to convey this to others. Hell, I ran a University Judo club as a 4th Kyu and our sponsoring Judo club was quite impressed with what I was able to accomplish.

    I didnt think of that. My BJJ instructor was a Brown Belt when I started.
    I havent taken Judo since 1993. I loved it. I teach what little I can remember to my kids.
    I live in one of the fastes growing counties in the country, yet all we have is TKD and some Shotokan
  7. Valiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:36pm


     Style: Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought it was one of those things where a black belt just meant you had masterd the basics.
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:56pm

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The guys comments could be viewed any number of ways. As a polemic he makes the point that TKD had been such a commercial success... which is absolutely true.

    And something he didn't really touch upon, Which is that so has Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Which stepped in and occupied a place that Judo could have presumably occupied on the landscape.

    But using the Kodakan is a bit disingenius. There is very little parity with the belt handing out in the Kodakan and the landscape of martial arts in this country. One needs to consider that yes a black belt is different in Japan. It is generally given for different reasons that involve commitment more than skill (as somoene mentioned). Also what a lot of people do not realize is that TKD was conceived of, marketed and developed by Koreans with a nose for business and an education. Brazilian stuff was also marketed with an efficiency that was never a part of Judo.

    I think these differences are integral and make it so that Judo could not possably imitate arts that have been constructed partially to be economically viable. Judo was modeled after arts like Tanachi Ryu... large arts with a lot of stuff in them and a lot of ways to be proficient (teacher, fighter, ambassador, etc). Unlike TKD Judo is not easily put into a context where it can be mass produced and mass marketed.

    I understand the man's frustration. It is an irony indeed that Judo was made to modernize Ju Jutsu and did si in Japan, only to become a traditional Japanese art world wide, where people only knew Budo and.... perhaps the few Samarai skills that had changed to adapt to the new century.
  9. Scott Larson is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 6:58pm


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RaiNnyX4
    I don't think it's faulty at all. He wants to take the black belt off of its pedestal as one of the ways to make Judo more popular. He points to the fact that the home country of Judo gives out black belts in a year.
    If he can do that, great. If the emphasis can be taken of ranking, it will work, but there are a lot of cultural differences to overcome.
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  10. M-Tri is offline
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    Pseudo-Scrambler Extraordinaire

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    Posted On:
    6/25/2008 8:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1
    Yes.

    From what i understand....Shodan doesn't mean your an expert, more so that you've learned HOW to learn. That you understand the principles/philosophies of the martial art, and can apply them.

    Here in the US, blackbelts are expected to be able to stop bullets and time, and fly, and stuff like that.

    Basically, look at it this way, as it was explained to me. Think of your house. Now, think of the walk down to the side walk. These steps are your kyu rank. You progress, but face it, your really not that far from where you were when you started out.

    Your Shodan is you stepping onto the sidewalk.

    Does that make any sense?

    (i could go with a different analogy if yo'd like)
    that makes sense, so they're like a blue belt in BJJ. :angel7:
    FACT- Eddie Bravo invented the triangle choke when he used it to tap out helio gracie at an ac/dc concert.


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