Posted On:6/19/2008 3:31pm
Style: MMA & Grappling
What do y'all think about a grappling tournament with no time limits, no points, and the only way to win is by tapping your opppnent out?
I competed in one of these a few years ago and loved it. Do you think this would be a popular format for competitors? Why or why not?
Thanks for your input!
Posted On:6/19/2008 6:53pm
I dunno, with no time limit it sounds like it would be a logistical nightmare.
I compete in tournaments with no points at the minute, it's a bit of a double edged sword - early on people are far more willing to open up and take risks, but with one minute to go if they're being hugely outclassed they'll stall like crazy to avoid a sub so that they can get a draw. Often you can have a match where one competitor would have been 20 or more points up and they're actively working to finish the fight but they'll end up with a draw because the other guy clammed up.
Posted On:6/19/2008 8:04pm
Style: white boy jiujitsu
USGrappling put on a tournament like this once called Submissions Only. I'd LOVE to compete in one of those.
Posted On:6/20/2008 12:03am
Style: Chinese Boxing
The closest I ever fought in was a time limit tournament with no points. Judges decided if you won or not. I really liked that.
Posted On:6/20/2008 1:13pm
You can only do that in small scale tournaments. When you get large numbers of people invovled it becomes a logistical nightmare.
Even WITH time limits and points **** can drag on way too long. I've sat waiting to be called into divisions for many hours at a time. I remember being told to start warming up at 2pm and not actually stepping onto the mat at 8pm.
Posted On:6/20/2008 5:33pm
I'd like to compete in a tournament like that, but I don't know if I'd like to do it regularly, mainly 'cause there'd be no real way of keeping anything to a schedule and tournaments can drag on anyway as it is.
Dedicated to legs and the disrespecting thereof.
i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!
Posted On:6/20/2008 7:50pm
Style: karate / bjj
it makes for a motherfucking boring event.
USMC Combat Instructor
Posted On:6/20/2008 8:48pm
Style: MCMAP, Judo, sex appeal
the ohio grappling challenge (http://ohiograpplingchallenge.com/index.html) is having their first ever "Submission Only" Division, at their next tournament
But its invitation only.
I think that the no time limit thing is a bit sucky. waay too long. I think perhaps if you extended the time limit, took out the points, and the only way to win was by sub or judge's decision, that would be hella tight
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Jiu Jitsu - Sometimes passing just isn't an option.
Posted On:6/21/2008 4:32pm
Style: BJJ, Unauthorized Judo
Lockflow here in Washington used to host the Lockflow Submission Challenge tournaments here. Basically, there was a 5 minute time limit. There were only points for submissions. Three points for subs and 1 point if there wasn't a sub by either party after the 5 minute time limit. Also, if someone ended up with 3 subs, then the match was called. You usually competed twice and then the points where added up to determine the two people with the most points. They then competed for first and second with that match being no time limit, first sub wins.
I liked the tournament because you didn't have to worry about points piling up for positional control, takedowns, etc; that normally cause stalling and passive play. You hunt for submissions and that's it. They were generally well run and the fact they were held two exits away actually made for a less stressful competition day for me.
My only gripe was there were the usual delays associated with same day registration. Also, I think some competitors where sandbagging too. But that's usually par for the course at tournaments.
Regardless of those minor gripes, I enjoyed those types of tournament rules more so then the normal BJJ/Sub Grappling tournament rules. My opinion is that a submission tournament should be about the submission and the rules should reflect that goal. I know it's semantics but honestly, if the rules don't favor a submission only approach, call your tournament grappling, or positional wrestling.
OK, I'm starting to bitch now, I'll stop.
Posted On:6/22/2008 3:10pm
The tournament I competed in a few years ago was broken down my weight divisions with no expereince levels involved. For example, there was a 150 and below division, 151-170, 171-190, 109-210, 210 & up.....something like that. But there were no time limits and the matches were won via the first submission. No points awarded for takedowns or anything else. I like the idea of the lockflow tournament, that sounds pretty cool. And I agree that the whole idea of SUBMISSION grappling tournaments should reward the submission. Positional points are for BJJ & wrestling.
Any more input or ideas?
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