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  1. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 12:40am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas
    Zero.

    Not really, but carryover is limited. The rule of specificity is king until you gain a great degree of procificency that dictates doing outside training. Most folks could stand to have better cardio by performing the activitiy that they want to get better at rather than run.
    In addition, I do no running-specific training, but I feel almost certain that I could waste Lance Armstrong at a 50-yard dash. Saying Lance should do well because he's the "king of cardio" spreads the illusion that there is this one thing called cardio, instead of several specific adaptations that aren't indicative of one another.
  2. selfcritical is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 12:43am


     Style: Pekiti, ARMA, other stuff

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emu_forefront
    My surprise is not created by the fact that he came in 856th place, but rather that he was tired after participating. I can understand how he lost, despite what my first post may say, but Lance Armstrong being tired out by long distance anything is baffling to me.
    He does well at cycling in large part because his body has gotten incredibly efficient at the movements. I'm sure his running technique isn't that hot, and he's expending a great deal more energy/inflicting more stress on his muscles than the activity he has spent several years adapting his body to.
  3. Lily is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 3:35am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No longer training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find over a decade of running (competitively too in that time) has given me the ability to relax when fatigued, focus and also continue some level of activity. This carried over pretty well in my early days of MA as I would not collapse in a heap, had energy to burn, could go the distance of the class with the higher grades.

    As I progressed however, plyo and weight training became necessary but always in the background my cardio endurance was there and something I kept up. I don't know how much I can attribute this to running but even after 5 days of work, 7 days of training (MA + gym) my body recovers quite well, I'm energetic and have lots of stamina.

    Also, to the OP...'running' absolutely does not have to be a flat jog at the same pace for 40 minutes.
  4. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 3:42am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i have been commented to by a lot of people that i train with about my cardio being amazing, and have consistently been told that i am one of the busiest fighters they know. Know how much running I do? fucking NONE i hate the ****. i dont swim, i cycle around but its not very tiring. my secret- when everyone else goes out to do their run for the advanced class, i go into the beginner class for an hour. simple as that. i drink too much piss and eat too much junk, probably dont exercise enough, and i still run rings around people when it counts.
  5. sprunghunt is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 5:35am


     Style: Wing Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I don't run

    Yes lance armstrong probably is very cycling specific.

    Because cycling is a weight bearing exercise you can carry a lot more muscle around than a runner needs to and this can even be necessary for the changes of pace that you won't find in a running race. Lance armstrong in particular is well known for his large (for a cyclist) glutes which give him abnormal climbing and time trial power.

    Within cycling there is specificity with certain body types being more suited for sprints or climbing. In a bike race you'll often see the sprinters falling off when things go uphill and vice versa.

    You can also rest during a bike race. There are downhills and you can draft other riders. You can't rest while you're running so an ability to recover quickly is wasted while running.

    I don't think either is really better or worse for fighting - I prefer to ride because it's more fun - but running definitely gives you a better workout for time invested. Running shoes are also a lot cheaper than a bike.
  6. Lily is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 5:57am

    Join us... or die
     Style: No longer training

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alex - so as a PT you don't make your clients run at all?
  7. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 6:28am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    as a PT its entirely up to them what they want to do to get fit. im just there to make sure they do it properly ;)
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 8:32am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emu_forefront
    Why do many top fighters, who can obviously run two miles, still use running in their training program?
    Old habits. Motivation. Mental training. Stimulation of the ankles and the muscles, bones and ligaments within your feet (running is not just "cardio".)

    There is not a all-or-nothing, black-and-white to this thing. You do what works for you, not necessarily the most optimal mind you, but you stay consistent with what works for you (and this is far more valuable than changing **** every time you find something more "optimal".)
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 8:36am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emu_forefront
    My surprise is not created by the fact that he came in 856th place, but rather that he was tired after participating. I can understand how he lost, despite what my first post may say, but Lance Armstrong being tired out by long distance anything is baffling to me.
    Why? Since when pedaling with your ass supported on a chair became the same in terms of metabolic requirements as long-distance running?

    Amstrong has what's perhaps the best VO2 max among athletes, but it's fined-tuned to biking. His body does not have the capacity to switch from using glucose to fat and run with as little energy consumption as possible for long distance running/swimming (which long distance marathon runners and long distance swimmers condition their bodies for.)

    Beyond a general level of fitness, extreme conditioning is sports-specific.

    The human body is a smart machine that tunes itselfs to the demands imposed on it and no more. It is not going to try to go ENRON and adapt (and thus increase nutritional and recovery demands) for every possible form of physical demand it might encounter.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 6/17/2008 8:39am at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  10. Yohan is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 9:51am


     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily
    I find over a decade of running (competitively too in that time) has given me the ability to relax when fatigued, focus and also continue some level of activity. This carried over pretty well in my early days of MA as I would not collapse in a heap, had energy to burn, could go the distance of the class with the higher grades.
    I started running recently and noticed an almost immediate increase in my endurance. After two weeks of 3 and 4 milers, I noticed my performance after 10 minutes of grappling or boxing training went up significantly. However, the main thing that running long distances has taught me is how to work through pain and fatigue and still perform. I think I could retain that (which I see as the major benefit of running) even if I stopped running now.
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