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  1. gojuJKDdude is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 11:38am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Went punch for punch and hurt my hand... is the hand a weak weapon?

    I went punch for punch with a freind of mine who doesent take MA's. We were going to punch each other in the shoulder until one gave up. On my first punch I hit him with a straight line cross and my hand really hurt. I was using proper form and wrist alignment etc.. First the wrist hurt but then the pain moved to the area just below my knuckles. To shake anyones hand gave me excrutiating pain. Its a month later and it doesent really hurt anymore but everytime I train I seem to reinjure it slightly. Is the fist a good weapon to use espescially if your striking the head which is hard? How do u condition your hands to make them tougher and more resilient?
  2. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 11:55am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's a bit odd m8... you sure you hit it properly? I don't see how you could hurt your fist hitting someone's shoulder unless you either did it wrong or you hit them so hard that they have a broken collar bone or something...
  3. IndoChinese is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 12:29pm


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    funny things happen sometimes. sounds like you compressed the hand. probably bruised something.

    1) knuckle pushups will strengthen the hands. 100-300 per day

    2) fingertip pushups as well. as well, they will strenthen grasping actions. 50-100 per day

    3) strike a makiwara board or some other properly constructed impact device. no need to hit too hard, just strike with medium force and get a steady , slow rhythym. do 100 strikes for each fist a day for three months.

    4) 'flashing hands'- stand in basic stance, horse for instance. extend both arms slightly bent, palms facing out. open hand wide as possible, splaying the fingers and then close the hand into a fist. repeat, 'flashing' the hands. it is like making a fist over and over again, very rapidly. do as many as you can. max out in one set. and try to do one full set a day for 3 months. you are doing it right if after a while your hands cramp up and you start to lose coordination.

    5) do ALOT of bagwork on a bag that is not too hard for your wrists. move up in bag toughness later.

    6) dont hit bones with your fist. fists are meant to strike flesh. bone on bone in no good.


    after conditioning training, run hot water over your hands and massage them.


    Dont overdo it! be moderate and steady. the strength comes from regularity of practice, not intensity.

    Be careful, i know some martial artists who did hardcore conditioning in their youth and now their hands have lost quite a bit of manual dexterity in their old age. some have a hard time with basic tasks like buttoning shirts or using keys or other small objects.

    Conditioning is essential but it should not be detrimental to the body. some soreness, redness, and scraping of the skin is common and to be expected. pain in the joints and bones, or deep in the hand, however, will require that you suspend training until they heal. get tiger balm or ditdajow if you can. apply this after training, and 3 times a day if injured.

    btw, do not use any gloves or hand wraps when doing these excercises.


    Peace.
  4. drunkenj is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 12:35pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    had you been drinking?, drunkenness tennds to explain a lot of injuries
  5. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 1:00pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You hit him in the shoulder!!
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. The Wastrel is offline
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    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 1:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I mean, for crissakes people, did anyone think to ask about target shift? It doesn't matter how well your hand is aligned if its position relative to the target changes because the target moves. If you were punching each other in the deltoid, then this is very likely to happen. The shoulder is a highly motile joint. It will yield if you hit it a certain way, and this will likely cause hand injury.

    You need to think about this. This is why targeting is important.

    Plus, this is pretty much how I broke my hand once. Although I did not purposely target the shoulder.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  7. Wu De is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 1:04pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kuntaokid, great advice! To add a little to the thread, if you want to toughen up the hand in general, i recommend filling a bucket with rice and gently at first thrust the hand into the rice. Repeat for 3 months, only 5 mins or so a day, massaging the hand in warm water after training will help the healing process.
  8. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 1:35pm


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wastrel,

    either his wrist was bad or the other kid moved in a little to 'brace' up...hence the target shift. I have had similiar occurences many times in sparring and in training. sounds like he got jammed by the shoulder. you cant really fix that. it is something that must be learned in freefight.

    You are correct about targeting and accuracy, which is a matter of adjustment.

    so for speed and accuracy:

    1) candle punching- light a tall candle, a taper, and punch at it without hitting to put it out. this will help with speed, snap retraction, and accuracy.

    2) suspend a small ball from a string and strike it lightly with combinations. first remain stationary, and then later move around the ball and hit from different angles. this will help with timing, accuracy and coordinated footwork. dont hit hard, but try to move smoothly and hit the ball as square as possible. it should be no larger than a tennis ball. I take a few sheets of paper and wrap it with tape. then i punch a hole through the middle and thread a string to hang it from the ceiling.



    the pushups, flash hands, and maki practice with help with alignment and condition, and the candle and paper ball with help with accurate delivery and timing.

    Peace.
  9. NorwoodBloke is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 2:28pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kali has moves that attack the opponents fists with glancing blows from your elbows when defending, bare knuckle boxers sometimes intentionally take blows on the hard part of their skull for the same effect and vale tudo fighters often slap instead of hooking to protect their hands.
    The hands aren't weak you just need to be careful what you do with them in training.

    (I bust my wrist throwing scrappy uppercuts and I would recommend getting some boxer's hand wraps. They help to prevent re-injury.)
  10. Greg is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2003 2:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shnizzletodawizzle

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!


    The hand is a structurally weak part of the body due to the number of bones and joints in it.

    Itís a disaster waiting to happen.
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