TUF season 7, Episode 11: just the icing on the ice-cream...

**gzk** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 4:23am

Actually, you can score for "threatening" sub. attempts. Comes under "fighting area control". Obviously though, if you're being bombed on from inside your guard the rest of the round, you're going to have to try a lot of subs to win or draw the round.

Also, while you need to open guard to get most of the available sweeps or subs in, if you're going to break the guy down in closed guard, what's wrong with any of the closed rubber guard positions? Do the jits guys on TUF not know it? I've barely if ever seen rubber guard played on TUF, at least not lately.

**Kambei Shimada** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 5:28am

Looks like my early prediction of a Jess vs CB final is gonna happen.

I win!

Although i would like to see Amir win as he seems the most likelable.

I think CB has a much better chance of beating Jess than Amir though, I think if Amir manages to get past CB (which i doubt) Jess would just use his freakish strength to pin him down and sit on him.

**ADM** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 6:06am

To be honest I kept thinking Amir would lose all of his fights, but the guy had a lot of heart as well as some DAMN heavy hits.

That said I really don't see someone with CB's skill falling victim. Just saying it 'could' happen :)

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 11:51am

In a surprising twist, JT Money get's the boot but Jesse gets a second chance!

...One can hope.

**Judah Maccabee** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 11:57am

Do the jits guys on TUF not know it? I've barely if ever seen rubber guard played on TUF, at least not lately.

How often do you see rubber guard in either high-level grappling competition or MMA in general?

You hear it spoken of quite a bit in UFC, especially because Joe Rogan is a high-level student under its exponent, Eddie Bravo, and Joe Rogan is one of the voices of MMA, literally.

But its utilization? Rubber guard is like the "Crazy Monkey" boxing style - it's a fairly different-looking take on conventional wisdom, and there are pockets of individuals who utilize it (Tito Ortiz vs. Liddell in UFC 40-something for CM), but it's not part of the majority

**3moose1** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 12:45pm

Originally Posted by gzk

I've barely if ever seen rubber guard played in any major MMA event, at least not lately.

Fixed...

also, what Judah said.

**Ming Loyalist** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 12:50pm

Originally Posted by Judah Maccabee

How often do you see rubber guard in either high-level grappling competition or MMA in general?

i actually see it a lot in the japanese events. i saw a few uses of the rubber guard in dream 4 and in shooto tradition 1.

**3moose1** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 1:02pm

Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist

i actually see it a lot in the japanese events. i saw a few uses of the rubber guard in dream 4 and in shooto tradition 1.

It rears its flexible head every now and then in the UFC, but honestly, people normally hold a shitty mission control, then let it go. I've never seen even a new york in *high* level MMA events.

Besides dream...

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 2:27pm

Originally Posted by gzk

Actually, you can score for "threatening" sub. attempts. Comes under "fighting area control". Obviously though, if you're being bombed on from inside your guard the rest of the round, you're going to have to try a lot of subs to win or draw the round.

Also, while you need to open guard to get most of the available sweeps or subs in, if you're going to break the guy down in closed guard, what's wrong with any of the closed rubber guard positions? Do the jits guys on TUF not know it? I've barely if ever seen rubber guard played on TUF, at least not lately.

Originally Posted by Judah Maccabee

How often do you see rubber guard in either high-level grappling competition or MMA in general?

You hear it spoken of quite a bit in UFC, especially because Joe Rogan is a high-level student under its exponent, Eddie Bravo, and Joe Rogan is one of the voices of MMA, literally.

But its utilization? Rubber guard is like the "Crazy Monkey" boxing style - it's a fairly different-looking take on conventional wisdom, and there are pockets of individuals who utilize it (Tito Ortiz vs. Liddell in UFC 40-something for CM), but it's not part of the majority

It has a lot to do with the people trying to play it then the techniques themselves. Bravo has mentioned it before and I've seen it in many of fights where a guy will just out the blue attempt it without fully committing to it. They may have played with it in training but they haven't sparred with or attempted to make it a go-to technique. As such, in an MMA, when they are catching an ass beating from their guard, you see people half-heartedly go for it and it fails. This is like half-heartedly trying any new technique in a pressure cooker situation. It will probably fail and you will revert back to the stuff that you know works for you.

As for Crazy Monkey, that's still somewhat of a new concept to striking. The only reason I heard of it was because a guy was opening a SBG in the area and in researching his credentials and that of the SBG organization as a whole, I came across Rodney King's stuff. There are very few people who know it and fewer who know it well. Similar to Rubber Guard in that effect. Rampage uses it very effectively to avoid damage in his fights.

You could look at both in terms of Judo in MMA. There are few people who do it in MMA and fewer who can actually do it well and effectively in MMA. it will just take time.

Change of pace:

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...6493&zoneid=13

Another excellent blog by Mike Dolce regarding the stuff that goes on at TUF. If it's been posted already then oh well, it needs to be read again.

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 6/16/2008 2:27pm

Everybody yelling about Tim's lack of athleticism and "going to his back too early in the scramble" are apparently missing the fact that he had a pretty obvious shoulder injury going into the match (he barely uses his left arm at all, and when they show him giving advice to Jesse in training he has a gigantic bag of ice strapped to it).