How Do Abdominal Training

**hairy** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 8:46am

Originally Posted by BudoMonkey

Yah, to the OP - you need to do waaaaay more for any results to show. I do the 1,000 crunches usually in the morning and again at night before I go to bed,

Isn't it bad to workout your abs everyday? especially when its twice a day...

[edit my Teh El Macho 2008-06-06 4:00PM EST]

This thread is the result of posts moved out of this abomination: i can haz 200 ab crunchies, i'm teh leet hax0r, lol - No BS Martial Arts

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 8:59am

Not necessarily, not if you are already conditioned to do so (or if it's at a volume, however low or high that it's within your ability to perform.)

**BudoMonkey** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 10:04am

Yea, I had to work up to that amount.
Also, abdominals recover very quickly compared to some other muscle groups.

**muddy** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 11:03am

This thread made me curious.
I was trying to find a routine that makes sense to me that involves thousands of crunches and I couldnt find one.
I'm inclined to believe that abs arent that much different from any other muscle. I mean I would never consider doing thousands of light bicep curls everyday. What would make abs so much different that they warrant thousands of light contractions every day?

Im not trying to crap on anyones opinions, those are honest questions.

I did come across this: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/vinced11.htm

Quote
"2. Thousands Of Crunches:

Learning how to get a six-pack does not require thousands or even hundreds of crunches a day. So much for the Brittany Spears ab workout! Crunches are decent but totally overused and associated with more being better.

Crunches are a very general exercise, and general exercises get general results. Excessive floor crunches shorten the abdominal wall, pull your head forward and emphasize poor posture. They also involve a very low level of stimulation which neglects adequate muscle-fiber recruitment. "

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 12:00pm

It's called endurance dude. And muscles are not the same.

For example, glutes and calves are far more massive and dense than other muscles.

And yet, calves respond better with much higher reps than other muscle groups. They don't respond well with loads that allow only a low # of reps (in contrast to the gluteus which does respond well to near-maximal loads.)

The teres minor and infraspinatus (external shoulder rotators) are tinie tiny muscles that need to be exercised, and yet, the best way is with very high number of reps (20-30) for a couple of sets. They are not built to handle maximal loads of any kind by themselves.

Compare that with the neck muscles. They are very small and yet incredibly strong. They adapt rather quickly to strenght training. They are built to take a lot of punishment.

And those are just examples. Muscles are not the same, nor react the same.

Now, the quote that you mention does have truth in it. Thousands of crunches do lead to a shortening of the abdominal wall.

What it fails to clarify is that shortening of the abdominal wall will be the result UNLESS the lower back and glutes are also worked and if the abdominals and hip flexors get stretched regularly.

This is where people fail with the zillion ab programs. They focus on the abs but never do anything to maintain flexibilty and muscular balance.

Hundreds or thousands of reps are not the culprit of injuries or inflexibilities. Not maintaing proper muscular balance and lack of stretching are the causes.

Plus, many of our muscles are indeed designed for thousands and thousands of repetitions. Think your calves, your hamstring, your hip flexors. What do they do when you walk? They flex and extend.

What about people who work in construction, in the fields, people who do manual jobs in the developing world, the people in this very country just 80 years ago and before?

They do the equivalent of thousands of push ups, triceps extensions, bicep curls, isometric contractions of the abdominals, military presses, and fireman carries, day after day after day.

We are built for multiple reps, for thousands of reps. We seem to have forgotten what exactly we are built for. We exercise now to provide the physical stimulus our bodies were built for, to compensate for the lack of physical stimulus our lives suffer from now.

We have seriously forgotten what exercising is for and what our bodies are truly capable of doing.

**muddy** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 12:18pm

everyone responds differently I guess. Personally, I feel like I get far more out of more intense lower volume ab work than I ever would with megavolume floor crunches.

**Teh El Macho** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 1:40pm

It all depends what the goals are.

**Emevas** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 2:17pm

I seriously don't see much purpose for training the abs for thousands of reps. I use heavy resistance training with my abs, the same as other muscles. My "high rep" work gets into the 15-20 range.

**BudoMonkey** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 2:40pm

Emevas -What are some of these heavy resistance drills? I wonder if I already do them, and if not I'd sure appreciate learning them so I can icorporate it into my workouts.

Like Macho said, it all depends on your goals. If you just want to look good, then doing whatever yeilds the quickest results is obviously best. My goal is to harden my abdomen to protect my internal organs when fighting, and so far my routine of mixing both types of excercises, high-rep and low-rep with varying resistance, has been very effective in this regard. However I would be more than willing to change my routine if it would save me some time while offering as much padding. Do you train for fighting, or for body building? I don't really know if what I do is best. All I know are the results.

**Emevas** · Posted On: 6/06/2008 2:45pm

I don't train for bodybuilding. I really dislike the sport and the training methods. I am presently training for powerlifting, and use to train for boxing.

The abdominal/core training for powerlifting is designed to keep the abs strong to support a great deal of weight being moved (heavy squats and deadlifts). You can't really "harden" muscles, in so much as you can make them bigger or not bigger.

I've used movements including ab pulldowns (using resistance bands or cable weight), saxon side bends, Dumbbell side bends, heavy weighted crunches, and ab wheel work. There's a lot more out there, with Elitefts.com having a great exercise library.