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  1. G-Off is offline
    G-Off's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:18am


     Style: Ronin wannabe

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marcell
    Ok, fine. I'll put it how my Systema instructor did.

    WT, Karate, TKD, etc. etc. a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. Beyond that, of course it gets more technical. But when a fist hits your face you know if it is effective or not.

    What makes a good fighter is often beyond the style.
    And WHAT the **** did that mean? Stop regurgitating supposed wisdom.

    Are you arguing __in __un doesn't suck because styles don't suck, people do? If so, certain styles verifiably have a propensity towards making their followers suck at fighting.

    Are you arguing Chun is irrelevant to he-who-shall-not-be-named (cause we're fucking sick of talking about him) and if so why talk about him?

    What the hell are you on about?

    Quote Originally Posted by noonyez
    so what? it still isn't widely used. therefore wing chun still sucks
    Wrong argument...popularity isn't necessarily a measure of effectiveness, although they are correlated. The fact remains though, TKD is extremely popular and often ineffective. Chun still sucks because no one every wins with it, at least in a venue that leaves/provides evidence.
  2. kr0me is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:20am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Bollocks

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Miracleman
    So if Derek Jones' Wing Chun-based fighting system is a "complete" system, does that mean it's super-effective against wrestlers and the like? What kind of techniques are used in Jones' system to ward off an attacker who is trying to take you to the ground?

    Just curious.
    Its a complete self defence system for your average thug on the street.
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:21am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by marcell
    Ok, fine. I'll put it how my Systema instructor did.

    WT, Karate, TKD, etc. etc. a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. Beyond that, of course it gets more technical. But when a fist hits your face you know if it is effective or not.

    What makes a good fighter is often beyond the style.
    This thread is great.

    My laughing at you has nothing at all to do with, the effectiveness strawman you are trying to build.
  4. Kid Miracleman is offline
    Kid Miracleman's Avatar

    Rowsdower!

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:22am

    Join us... or die
     Style: On Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kr0me
    Its a complete self defence system for your average thug on the street.
    Will it help me defend myself if said thug is wielding a sharp pointy implement of destruction? Also, how well will it fare against a better-than-average thug (i.e., a trained amateur wrestler or boxer)?
  5. kr0me is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:23am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Bollocks

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    This thread is great.

    My laughing at you has nothing at all to do with, the effectiveness strawman you are trying to build.
    lol you can talk about strawmen! Saying a fight between a chunner and a kickboxer is 'two chunners fighting over liniage'
  6. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:25am


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you sacrificed either logic or reading comprehension (but not both), you could make this a successful "wilful ignorance" style troll job. Both at once is just over the top and tedious.
  7. kr0me is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:27am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Bollocks

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Miracleman
    Will it help me defend myself if said thug is wielding a sharp pointy implement of destruction? Also, how well will it fare against a better-than-average thug (i.e., a trained amateur wrestler or boxer)?
    Look mate, get real. Most people learn a martial art to defend againced a drunken yob on the street. Thats what its meant for, thats what it is suited for. If you are talking about style againced style type competitions well thats another thing. The chance of meeting a skilled fighter on the street is very low. And even so, yes the system will still work as it deals with all elements of fighting from kicking, to close range grappling.
  8. kr0me is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:29am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Bollocks

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Petter
    If you sacrificed either logic or reading comprehension (but not both), you could make this a successful "wilful ignorance" style troll job. Both at once is just over the top and tedious.
    ad hominem, look it up
  9. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:30am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kr0me
    Its a complete self defence system for your average thug on the street.

    Does this mean it's designed to easily sucker punch and steal a watch from a smaller and weaker opponent or something?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  10. marcell is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:31am


     Style: JKD and BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Off
    And WHAT the **** did that mean? Stop regurgitating supposed wisdom.

    Are you arguing __in __un doesn't suck because styles don't suck, people do? If so, certain styles verifiably have a propensity towards making their followers suck at fighting.
    Ok, first of all, why are you freaking out? Take it easy man, your acting like we are arch-enemies are something.

    What I am saying is partially that some people do suck. I suck, for example, so some things take me longer to learn then for other people.

    In the end, almost no one totally sucks and almost everyone is capable. I'm sure that there is many people out there, however, that are simply completely incapable of martial arts. It may simply be bcause they don't want martial arts.

    But this is obvious.

    Are you arguing Chun is irrelevant to he-who-shall-not-be-named (cause we're fucking sick of talking about him) and if so why talk about him?
    I'm sorry I don't understand this question.

    What the hell are you on about?
    Just my opinion is all.

    Wrong argument...popularity isn't necessarily a measure of effectiveness, although they are correlated. The fact remains though, TKD is extremely popular and often ineffective.
    Agreed.

    Chun still sucks because no one every wins with it, at least in a venue that leaves/provides evidence.
    Again, I agree with you. In any case, I view Chun as a form of Boxing. Put Chunner against Chuner and Chun works.

    It might work against other striking arts, or might not.

    The onyl point I am trying to make is that some might find it useful. But if you want to learn how to do everything, WT doesn't seem to be an all round MA. It's striking, mostly punching.

    As for TKD, again TKD Vs. TKD is what it's good for, and maybe against other strikers.

    But if something is not useful for what you want then it's a waist to spend 20 yeas on it. But if you can instead take some things from it that are useful (like JKD does) then why not?
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