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  1. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 7:34pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Glock safeties...Why on the trigger?

    Ok this has been bugging me for a long time. Every time I ask someone the answer I get doesn't seem to make sense to me. So the question is, why do glocks have the safety ON the trigger? How is that safe? How does that possibly keep people from accidentally firing the weapon? When I asked a guy at the local gun store (As I was buying my lovely Para Ordinance 14-45) he told me that it was so when you need to shoot urgently you don't need to mess with a safety. While I guess that makes sense...sort of...my question would be then why have the safety at all? Is this just a weird "To get by safety standards" thing or is there a logical reason for having a safety on the trigger? I think of the reason for having a safety is embodied in the example of the child finding the gun. The first thing an un educated child would do would probably be pull the trigger because thats what they have seen on TV, movies etc. So...why put a safety there that is deactivated by pulling the trigger?
  2. syberia is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 7:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having never touched a Glock: surely there is more to turning off the safety then pulling the trigger? Because, isn't a saftey supposed to stop the movement of the trigger?


    Chaos? Panic?... Disorder??
    .........................​My work here is done.

  3. Xanen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 9:10pm


     Style: BJJ (Blue)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll bite. And, I'll also clarify that I'm by no means an expert on firearms.

    There's a few ways to think about this. The witty answer any old gun guy will give is "the safety is between your ears. Don't pull the trigger unless you want to."

    A more thorough answer is this: There are many types of safeties, each serving one or more purposes. For example, there can be a firing pin safety, a magazine safety, a half-cock safety, manual safety, etc.,

    The glock has three safety mechanisms, 1 external (trigger safety) and 2 internal (firing pin and drop safety). The trigger safety is meant to prevent firing caused by lateral pressure on the trigger. The firing pin safety blocks the firing pin from contacting the primer until it is removed by pulling the trigger (ie: dropping the gun on it's muzzle). I don't really know how the drop safety works in addition to all this, but I imagine it has something to do with preventing movement of the striker unless the trigger is pulled.

    These safeties are mostly meant to eliminate accidental discharges in the case of a dropped weapon, snag, bumping a SA trigger, etc., Or, in the case of a magazine safety, preventing people from accidental discharges while field stripping/cleaning.

    The scenario you describe, though, is really about preventing unauthorized access to a firearm. IMHO, this is not what operational safeties are for. That's what a safe or gun lock is for.
  4. Southpaw is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 10:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great post.

    I was just going to say Glocks don't have a safety to prevent uneducated children from shooting them.

    If you've got kids, keep them in a safe.

    Besides, assuming a kid could get to a gun, I've always thought that not having it cocked was a lot safer than having it ready to fire on safety. My son can't chamber any of my pistols and he's 5.
  5. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 11:28pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanen
    The scenario you describe, though, is really about preventing unauthorized access to a firearm. IMHO, this is not what operational safeties are for. That's what a safe or gun lock is for.
    I am a 1911 man myself. I have used a number of different hand guns at ranges and the glock is the only one I'd ever seen with the trigger safety. I am used to just the standard safety and the grip safety. I get having extra internal mechanisms to prevent firing if dropped, but as far as external that one has baffled me. I also know the first safety is your brain (thats also what the guy at the gun store said when I asked) but still. If we relied on that theory then there would be no need for a safety in the first place. I always assumed the safety was meant to prevent accidental fireing of the gun if its loaded and or chambered, hence the nature of my question.
  6. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/05/2008 11:34pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw
    Great post.

    I was just going to say Glocks don't have a safety to prevent uneducated children from shooting them.

    If you've got kids, keep them in a safe.

    Besides, assuming a kid could get to a gun, I've always thought that not having it cocked was a lot safer than having it ready to fire on safety. My son can't chamber any of my pistols and he's 5.
    I have no kids but I was using that as the basic example of the unwanted user attempting to fire the weapon.
  7. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:06am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    safeties exist to prevent accidental discharges due to mechanical failure or other non-operator error. people being idiots are not addressed via engineering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw
    If you've got kids, keep them in a safe.
    i concur. saves on bedding, too.
    Last edited by pauli; 6/06/2008 12:11am at .
  8. Xanen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 5:46am


     Style: BJJ (Blue)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice
    I am a 1911 man myself. I have used a number of different hand guns at ranges and the glock is the only one I'd ever seen with the trigger safety. I am used to just the standard safety and the grip safety. I get having extra internal mechanisms to prevent firing if dropped, but as far as external that one has baffled me. I also know the first safety is your brain (thats also what the guy at the gun store said when I asked) but still. If we relied on that theory then there would be no need for a safety in the first place. I always assumed the safety was meant to prevent accidental fireing of the gun if its loaded and or chambered, hence the nature of my question.
    Both the M&P and XD also feature trigger safeties. As I mentioned above, that trigger safety's sole purpose is to prevent firing due to lateral pressure on the trigger. Another thing to consider is that 1911s are SA, with a relatively short and light (4-5.5) trigger pull, whereas the above polymers have longer, heavier (5.5-7.5) triggers due to the striker action. Compared to a conventional DA pistol, however, it's still relatively light and susceptible to pressure due to bumps or snags. Hence, the desire to incorporate some form of external safety, but not necessarily a thumb safety. It's just another way of solving the problem of accidental discharges due to snags, bumps, drops.

    These safeties are NOT intended to prevent a loaded gun from firing when someone decides to pull the trigger.

    If it makes you feel safer to know that 2 motions are required before firing your pistol, that's great. Others feel safer knowing that they don't have to carry cocked & locked or more comfortable knowing they don't have to fiddle with a safety during an adrenaline dump. It's pretty subjective.
  9. Hooded Justice is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:34pm


     Style: Justice/Firearms

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not all 1911's are single action. My para ordinance is a double action with a LDA trigger for smooth trigger pull. Its not a starndard 1911 set up and aside from the para ordinance line I don't know of any other double action 1911s. In my experience, most safties I've dealt with seemed to either keep the trigger from being pulled fully or if the trigger was pulled then the hammer wouldn't move. This was on both my 1911s and an old beretta 92fs I used to have (as well as my M4/car15 but rifles might be different). I simply assumed that was how all safeties were meant to work. Its interesting to know they were considering lateral pressure for that safety.



    YouTube - DEA Agent Shoots Himself

    I suppose this vid of a cop and a glock 40 is not new and probably demonstrates how safeties are not meant to prevent stupidity. However, had that been a normal thumb safety he might have saved some face and blood.
  10. chemistry is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2008 12:54pm


     Style: Shotokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The trigger safety essentially blocks the trigger from being pulled, unless an object of at least a certain size can physically disengage the trigger safety.

    This way, in case if someone's foolish enough to carry "Mexican style," at least this offers a bit of a safeguard (although not much) against unintentional trigger discharges by objects being caught in them. Thus, if a branch happens to come in contact with your trigger, there's a less likely chance that it will engage the trigger pull fully.

    I'm not say that it's impossible to have an unintentional discharge, but rather that a straight trigger pull isn't too easy for random objects to duplicate.


    Remember, that negligent discharges occur mostly because some ninny keeps his finger in the trigger guard while trying to re-holster. Such discharges can be easily prevented by keeping the damned finger out of the trigger guard until actually firing.
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