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  1. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:29pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    It looks a bit like sukui-nage, who did Judo steal it from?
    They all stole it from folk wrestling. You see the same thing in Mongolian wrestling and shuai jiao. Here's a graphic of sukui-nage with a leg lift:



    Here's Zhou Jingxuan's explanation of Bajiquan Kua, including the same leg lift for 'shuai' if the initial throw fails:

    YouTube - Bajiquan Kua - Master Zhou jingxuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Domite
    So I'm not really 100% sure I'm doing it right, I guess I'll ask jack at the next TD.
    I'll be happy to help you with it. In the meantime, try to use Zhou's advice (0:42 of above video) on getting the head and shoulder in tight. It's a mistake to try to throw the guy with your arm. Think of it like you're throwing him by using your hips to spin your torso, driving your shoulder up and into him. The slight lift will help push him over your leg.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:38pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man I wish I could learn Baji. It is climbing up as my second favorite style.
  3. Goju - Joe is offline
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    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:40pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    suki nage not tani otoshi!!!

    (I guess that's why I couldn't fight the right gif)

    Damn I fail at Japanese

    (see I knew what I was talking about see SEEE!!!)
  4. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:40pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrusher
    They all stole it from folk wrestling. You see the same thing in Mongolian wrestling and shuai jiao. Here's a graphic of sukui-nage with a leg lift:



    Here's Zhou Jingxuan's explanation of Bajiquan Kua, including the same leg lift for 'shuai' if the initial throw fails:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ETiQZzw6w



    I'll be happy to help you with it. In the meantime, try to use Zhou's advice (0:42 of above video) on getting the head and shoulder in tight. It's a mistake to try to throw the guy with your arm. Think of it like you're throwing him by using your hips to spin your torso, driving your shoulder up and into him. The slight lift will help push him over your leg.
    Perfect vid for this discussion. I'm glad you came by and explained it better. The way he executes it in the vid is exactly how we train it, I just couldn't figure out how to put it into words that would make sense.
  5. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Domite
    Thanks, that was very helpful. If it is a tai chi throw too, then my trainer will most likely know how to do it, so I'll ask him today, but it's just a matter of swinging that lead arm hard enough?
    Ain't nothin' just a matter of swinging an arm hard enough in tai chi. Like Jack says above, you have to seal (get in close, lots of contact) and the power comes as it so often does from hips and core strength. Your arm is mostly just a conduit for that power.
  6. Ronin.74 is online now

    霍氏八极拳徒弟

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 1:53pm


     Style: CMA,Muay Thai ,Yudo,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The concept of "Kao" 靠 is heavily emphasized in Baji. Kao is the crash/collide entry motion you see him executing as he pushes with his arm at 0:23. Baji is essentially a close range system so a lot of emphasis is placed on closing the gap with various set ups for entry. After which you can utilize various body parts to strike, grab, and throw your opponent.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 2:13pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Time for more research.
  8. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 3:33pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin.74
    Baji is essentially a close range system so a lot of emphasis is placed on closing the gap with various set ups for entry.
    The first real Baji player I met was a Taiwanese guy getting his PhD in the department where I was studying at university. It turned out he had spent his time in the army as a combatives instructor and kuo shu fight team captain. He said he mainly practiced his family's flavor of Chen taiji, but that they all learnt Baji first because its bridging and entering techniques were super helpful to taiji players. YMMV, of course, but it seemed sensible and he was definitely a capable fighter.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
  9. Domite is offline
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    blotter art.

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 3:57pm


     Style: San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just to clarify, I was able to do it on a compliant partner, but I could tell I was muscling it too much, and still couldn't get the power shown in the original video. I see what you mean, jack, about the body and head position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackrusher
    It's a mistake to try to throw the guy with your arm. Think of it like you're throwing him by using your hips to spin your torso, driving your shoulder up and into him. The slight lift will help push him over your leg.
    Yeah, I think that's exactly the difference between the right way and what I was doing. Would you say that the arm is what takes the place of the leg lift in the inital throw? ie. tilting him back, or is it more of the "Kao" that tilts your opponent back?

    And should you aim the head at the shoulder, or is he just short?
  10. Jack Rusher is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2008 7:42pm


     Style: ti da shuai na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Domite
    Would you say that the arm is what takes the place of the leg lift in the inital throw? ie. tilting him back, or is it more of the "Kao" that tilts your opponent back?
    The arm's the same in both. Just do what the red Judo guy does in the graphic I posted before but crowd the guy more and skip the leg lift. If he doesn't go down, grab his lead leg with your other hand to force the issue. The pushing surfaces are your hip (fulcrum) and shoulder (pressor), which is what makes this throw effortless when you get it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Domite
    And should you aim the head at the shoulder, or is he just short?
    Because you're a giant, you'll probably end up using your shoulder rather than your head.
    “Most people do not do, but take refuge in theory and talk, thinking that they will become good in this way” -- Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics, II.4
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