Hardcore Taekwondo

[DerAuslander]

It was hard to read!

[Liam Cullen]

And now you can go back to North Korean TKD master and tell him that you were told that he is full of ****.

[Blue_Knight]

You're new to this forum, and judging by what you posted, we don't need your input.

I am truly sorry that I offended someone so quickly. Just sharing my personal experiences. DerAuslander, if you speak for the entire Bullshido forum, and you say nobody here needs my input, then so be it.

You need to stop posting and take the time to evaluate what is judged as genuine, effective TKD by Bullshido. I really doubt it's Chung Do Kwan.

I did read through the forum's rules, and have taken to heart the advice to be thick-skinned about those who bash TKD. What is deemed effective TKD by Bullshido is fine here, but in my life, I know what works for me, and that's all that matters to me.

I didn't say it was specifically Chung Do Kwan. I spend 15 years with Jidokwan, but to me, it is not really a Kwan issue, but variations of training that get labeled as "Taekwondo" whether it is quality or not.

Also, you need to shut up about the whole Korean thing, as we have Korean posters here who know that's bullshit.

I'm sure there are Koreans everywhere who have their own experiences and opinions, and call other things BS. I am not arguing with anyone about that, just saying that I have trained with, and been around many Korean Grandmaster who I personally witnessed providing a different level of instruction, favoritism, and sharing of knowledge with other Koreans, but did not do the same with the American Instructors.

If you want me to shut up about it - then fine - enough said!

Until you can come forward with anything more than bullshit rhetoric, there is no reason why we should take your opinion seriously.

How about we be fair about this. You can specifically point out something that I said that you believe is wrong, or BS, then correct me with details as to why it is wrong. No one has to take my opinions seriously, but opinions are just that - from both sides. Personal experience is another issue, and I am just telling it like I have seen it.

My apologies for offending anyone with my input.

Blue Knight

[DerAuslander]

No no no no no....

You're going about this all wrong!

You're supposed to call us all an uncultured group of UFC thugs!

You're supposed to question the legitimacy of a "Professional Buddhist" saying things like "bullshit" and "****" and being mean in general.

You're supposed to tell us that we've never experienced real TKD like only you know from your supersecret Grandmasters!

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE POLITE!!!

STOP RUINING MY FUN!!!

[Miguksaram]

The children learn genuine, effective TKD (not kiddy crap), but not hardcore adult Taekwondo.

What is "genuine" TKD vs ummmm....well..ok what is genuine TKD? What is hardcore adult TKD? What makes what you teach hardcore vs. John Doe down the street teaching TKD?

I have seen more hardcore TKD taught by Koreans to Koreans, but it gets modified when taught to outsiders unless you are really connected with the right Grandmasters, and are really dedicated to shut your mouth, quit complaining, and train hard!

Where did you see this? Almost every TKD school I have seen in Korea have all taught pretty much the same way the do here. (Note: Roughly, I've been to about 30-40 different schools throughout my 9 trips over there). You will see a handful of students that they put through the ringer, those they feel are going to be olympic bound, but the majority are just going through the motions. The only place I have seen "hardcore" TKD was at the university or KKW level training where they are getting their people ready for olympics and international competition.

[Blue_Knight]

No no no no no....

You're going about this all wrong!

....

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE POLITE!!!

STOP RUINING MY FUN!!!

I'm sorry to ruin your fun, DerAuslander. I really did not want to make any enemies here, or come off as though I'm right and others are wrong. I only wanted to share the things that I have experienced, and offer personal opinions and my own assessments of those experiences.

[Blue_Knight]

What is "genuine" TKD?

I consider TKD to be a development within the combined Kwans of the 1940's and 50's as Korea's Taekwondo, and the personal interpretation of Gen. Choi in the ITF. Either one could be labeled as "genuine," but what I don't believe represents genuine TKD are strictly sport schools, or those instructor's who were never trained from a lineage of one of the Kwans. In the U.S., there have been a lot of Karate and other instructors who jumped on the bandwagon of Taekwondo's popularity, and began calling what they teach TKD without being trained in it.

What is hardcore adult TKD?

I distinguish hardcore adult TKD from the kiddy programs that teach similar moves, but with less effectiveness. Many of the less quality schools that I have seen in the U.S. show students self defense tactics that are highly questionable, and would probably not work in real life. A lot of those instructors are just repeating what they were shown as a kid, and have never applied those things for real. Hardcore adult training builds to realistic, hard contact, full resisting, life or death scenarios, and trains people to do some major damage to an attacker, or even kill in defense of their life.

What makes what you teach hardcore vs. John Doe down the street teaching TKD?

That's a fair question, and it would only be based on the intensity training, and reality of self defense tactics in my school, as compared to John Doe's Dojang. In my view, students should not be coddled, and leave class like they had just had a fun day at the beach. Instead, they should be worked hard, sweat, and leave like they just finished an Iron Man race. This should make them want more, because they know it is making them better Martial Artists. The self defense training starts gradual to build a foundation, but advanced students and Black Belts must put on heavy pads (so no one gets killed), and make it as realistic as possible.

Tournaments are fine for fun, but in reality training, all rules go out the window, and Black Belts need to be prepared for any kind of attack against any and all types of weapons and dirty tricks, and there is nothing that they should not be prepared to do in return.

Where did you see this? Almost every TKD school I have seen in Korea have all taught pretty much the same way the do here. (Note: Roughly, I've been to about 30-40 different schools throughout my 9 trips over there).

I'm sorry if my comment was misleading. I meant that I saw this type of attitude and behavior among some of the Korean Grandmaster in the United States, not Korea. I am not going to give names, because they are still teaching, and although I am no longer affiliated with them, I don't want to make any enemies.

When I was in Korea, the training seemed pretty much upfront, but I have noticed a somewhat natural, and understandable tendency to take more pride in making Korean students stand out as better trained that foreigners. In the U.S., I have worked closely with some Korean Grandmasters who rarely took an American in to their confidence of anything beyond the normal classroom instruction.

This is not to say that they don't push them, or teach them well, but I find that there is a great benefit to having someone take you under their wing, so to speak, and hold nothing back. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have gotten the impression that some Korean Masters are willing to go just so far with sharing the most advanced of their hard earned knowledge with foreigners.

[DerAuslander]

OK, yeah, that's all bullshit and nothing new, and doesn't tell us anything about your so-called "hardcore TKD", or "genuine" TKD.

Please, spare us the bullshit and actually tell us something worthwhile.

[Blue_Knight]

OK, yeah, that's all bullshit and nothing new, and doesn't tell us anything about your so-called "hardcore TKD", or "genuine" TKD.

Please, spare us the bullshit and actually tell us something worthwhile.

Au contraire, Pierre! No BS here. However, I am open to review if you wish to specifically point to a statement that you believe to be BS, and tell me why you think it is so.

Also, just so I am clear on your request, are you of the opinion that "hardcore TKD" does, or does not exist? Do you also hold that all TKD is the same, or do you believe there are some instructors that are not actually trained in TKD, nor qualified to teach, yet claim to be teaching TKD? Do you see a difference between fake credentials, kiddy karate TKD, sport TKD schools, and "genuine" TKD that is designed for self defense and a well-balanced program of mind, body, and spirit training for the serious individual?

Just curious as to what your point of view is.

Thanks,
Blue Knight

[Liam Cullen]

I believe the answer is all of the above