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  1. #11
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kempo Chris
    Not the most practical or effective of martial arts. I appreciate the athleticism of TKD but would not advise it for self defense or fighting. I don't care how hard they are willing to kick each other, TKD is missing a lot and no matter how "hardcore" a place is you will not get the best self defense or fighting skills. if your set on dong TKD just remmebr no matter what they do or say keep ur damn hands up.
    Yes, of course and Kempo is teh serious.

    There is a ton of shitty Kempo (No CL doesn't save it all), kung fu (Cung Le doesn't save it all), Krotty, etc.

    Really why isn't his in the KMA forum?

    Proper trained TKD is fine. I've met a few good practitioners that changed my mind years ago.

  2. #12
    Soju_King's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sum yung gai
    I'd love some feedback from any Taekwondo practicioners on this one...

    I've got my Dad visiting from Australia at the moment and because I've recently taken up Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, we've spent a bit of time talking about Martial Arts. I guess my Dad is what you'd call an 'old-school' Taekwondo practitioner who's been regaling me over the last few days with his war stories.

    But I'm beginning to wonder if the style of Taekwondo my Dad did (in the late 70's to early 80's) even exists any more. For instance, in his old Dojang, guys actually kicked each other. Pretty hard sometimes. I remember visiting him in the hospital a bit as a kid and I remember one grading he took me too where a guy got his leg broken.

    It seems like a totally different version of Taekwondo to the version I've seen, heard about and the lessons I took at a McDojang as a kid. I'm wondering if there's a particular style of Taekwondo that is to TKD (I'm guessing there must be in Korea somewhere?) what Kyokushin is to other styles of Karate, or if Dad's instructor was just a ruthless sadist?

    I've got nothing against Taekwondo (any way you cut it, the Axe Kick rocks) as a style, but I abhor how it's been watered down, stripped of any 'danger' element and packaged for Soccer Mums and their kids.

    I apologize in advance if this topic is too stupid, even for YMAS. I did my best.

    Like Errant said. when TKD started to spread it was used as a marketing tool and a promoter of national pride. during this campaign it got watered down an commercialized.

    in some mags you can find interviews with old school Masters and thier tales of men in black suits or theres this one dude....i cant remember his name cause i lost the mag. he does Korean Karate and he was approached by Gen Choi at least 3 times

    to "convert" over to TKD. alot of people did this cause it allowed them the opportunity to come to America or go to another country an open up a school under the TKD banner an many fell into the money/greed trap.

    my Dad was stationed in Korea an he has similar stories to yours about TKD training lol. when i trained in the Caribbean it was pretty harsh..... but when i went home on emergency leave last year......it seemed like the MA scene has gotten kinda soft.

    I saw some Mcdojangs when i was in Korea too but the school i trained at was pretty cool an we would also train with the ROK army an Katusas.

    theres some other schools alot of them we call "rogues" who train an fight hard.....but especially with TKD it jus requieres alot of fishing around for a decent dojang.

    does anyone happen to know how the spread of Gong Kwon Yusul is going outside of Korea?.........i wanted to take that up but the nearest spot was like 2 hours away from where i was at.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinobi_Osiris
    theres some other schools alot of them we call "rogues" who train an fight hard.....but especially with TKD it jus requieres alot of fishing around for a decent dojang.
    I prefer to call them maverick TKD schools.

  4. #14
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    There's a thread in the KMA forum on Gong Kwon Yusul & what happened with it.

  5. #15
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sum yung gai

    But I'm beginning to wonder if the style of Taekwondo my Dad did (in the late 70's to early 80's) even exists any more. For instance, in his old Dojang, guys actually kicked each other. Pretty hard sometimes. I remember visiting him in the hospital a bit as a kid and I remember one grading he took me too where a guy got his leg broken.
    I started WTF TKD in 1978 or thereabouts. Yes, we kicked each other hard, and there were some hard body punches thrown as well.

    During the '80s, every time my 7th-dan instructor returned to Korea for a tournament or conference, he'd come back with a set of revisions, especially to sparring techniques and drills. Personally, I felt that a lot of them were kind of silly and they had the effect of watering down TKD sparring by making it increasingly specialized. I quit TKD around 1987, mostly because I didn't like where it seemed to be heading.

    I've never seen "stripmall TKD" except by glancing in storefront dojang windows, but my general sense is that it is pretty far from what we were doing in the late '70s.

    I kind of wish Taekkyon had been available when I started MA training ...

  6. #16
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    It was.

    Just not for Cracka McWhiteystein.

  7. #17
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know it was available in Korea; I remember my instructor showing us a Super-8 film of a smiling, elderly Taekkyon master repeatedly kicking the legs out from under a young TKD chap.

  8. #18
    Kempo Chris's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Yes, of course and Kempo is teh serious.

    There is a ton of shitty Kempo (No CL doesn't save it all), kung fu (Cung Le doesn't save it all), Krotty, etc.

    Really why isn't his in the KMA forum?

    Proper trained TKD is fine. I've met a few good practitioners that changed my mind years ago.
    O I know I am abhorred at the amount of shitty kempo places - I usually don't advise people to train kempo. There are some good TKD schools and practicioners, but they have been rare in my experiences.

  9. #19

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The 'old-school-was-the-real-hard-core thing' will never really be resolved. BS or not?
    Video was not as common back then as it is today, so every opinion will be squawked by nuthuggers on all sides.

    What's past is past. Those who want the old-school, the full-contact bareknuckle without pads, might possibly still find it. Those who are used to it but can't find places that do it any more can either go to whatever's available and supplement it with--for lack of a better term--'personal Kyokushin' (Oyama did, after all, self-train and self-condition after being dissatisfied with the watered-down **** he was finding in dojos).

    Or--lacking any place that trains you nearly as hard as you'd train and condition yourself--you can choose what IIF calls the 'path to self-destruction': take whatever you learned in the old-school place you used to go to and build upon it on your own, finding opportunities to put the results to the test via sparring (such as going to TDs as often as possible and finding someone there who's willing to go all-out with you).

    The latter is where I am right now, as there are no old-school or Kyokushin places near to my residence. Fortunately, I have thirty years of Karate and a kinesiology degree which allows for some objective testing criteria to be used, but that last is hardly a prerequisite: Oyama didn't have one, and--it turns out--didn't need one.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 5/27/2008 3:01pm at .

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand
    Or--lacking any place that trains you nearly as hard as you'd train and condition yourself--you can choose what IIF calls the 'path to self-destruction: take whatever you learned in the old-school place you used to go to and build upon it on your own, finding opportunities to put the results to the test via sparring (such as going to TDs as often as possible and finding someone there who's willing to go all-out with you).
    You just described my 6 years at a college tae kwon do club. Some of the most productive time I've spent in martial arts to be honest with you.

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