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  1. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 10:40am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Because you've only been training three months, aren't really sparring yet and have already decided that you know better than instructors at the kodokan (based on a few weeks here and there, and watching tape). If this were some unknown school or a style that advocated not sparring ever, it would be one thing. However, we're talking about the kodokan which has, on occasion, produced proficient grapplers.
    I'm not saying that I know better than them. They are excellent Judoka and know how to grapple both standing and on the ground. The official curriculum however, does not often address newaza, however since it is judo that is to be expected and in fact a good thing since you learn judo mostly for the throws. However the result is very vanilla ground fighting. It's not bad. Let me repeat that. I do not think that it is bad at all. Neither do I think that it is the greatest. Hence I used the term soso, but if you find the connotation of 'soso' to be too negative then feel free to substitute 'alright', 'passable', etc to your liking. Even so they tend to especially push on the standing while not touching on the ground too much compared to other places I have seen. Thus I belive a 'passible' but not 'exceeding' ranking is fair.



    Do you mean historically or recently? Really both. There are tons of great grapplers at the kodokan. Just because there are great grapplers there doesn't mean that the ground grappling for the adult class is fine but not the best. Many people learn from other people at the kodokan for tips and tricks on newaza, and many go to the kodokan after studying judo in high school or some other club (judo is the wrestling of japan and many people have at least dabbled in it at some point in their lives).

    Really, I'm not saying that the kodokan curriculum teaches crappling at all. And again, you are not there. A good portion of the people at the kodokan didn't start judo training there and didn't get their blackbelt there. They go there to hang out and practice with other judoka. Thus the adult class for 1st kyu and under could well be crappling (It is not by any means) and you could go to the kodokan for a good randori round yet. You'd have to ask someone who was there.
    Last edited by nightowl; 5/29/2008 10:48am at .
  2. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 10:45am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Again though, what is your goal?
    If you're training judo because you want to do judo, give it time. You're still new and the coaching ability is there.
    If you want to focus on ne waza, train in something that focuses on ne waza.
  3. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 10:55am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Again though, what is your goal?
    If you're training judo because you want to do judo, give it time. You're still new and the coaching ability is there.
    If you want to focus on ne waza, train in something that focuses on ne waza.
    My current goal is to supplement my escapes because if you are not pinning, you are being pinned. I'm not looking to find the best transition from half guard to Ezekiel.

    I love the instructors there- very nice people and good coaches. Thing is it is hard to find stuff on newaza unless you ask outside of what is being taught for the day (each month is planned out on what techniques will be shown day by day). As such things get overlooked over at times. this is what I am trying to say.
  4. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 3:45pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If they have months of lessons planned in advance - don't question it, go with it! A cohesive lesson plan like that is a blessing. In the time it takes to get to the more comprehensive newaza, focus on what they've already taught you. Get your kesa gatame *solid*, perhaps try out the armlocks and chokes from it for variety if you wish. Get your escapes *solid*. Work on your yoko shiho and kami shiho. Maybe even try tate shiho. But just focus on what they've already taught you and mastering that - the rest will come and yes this isn't your ideal but having the basics down completely will pay off hugely when you want to start incorporating broader techniques.

    If you are permitted to and have the time, look into the specific newaza classes under I believe Koji Komuro. He is a fantastic Judoka whose newaza is superior to many BJJ blackbelts and he frequently competes at the blackbelt level in BJJ.
  5. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 10:08pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even changed my original wording.

    Right, but teaching escapes isn't very common. The reason why I posted this thread is that when newaza was shown, it would either be a pin or breaking the turtle. However once the pin was in teaching on the escape was quite sparse. I figured that the only thing more important than getting the pin is getting out, so I recently started training with guys after class who like me want to work on their newaza beyond what is taught in class.

    As for other newaza things like jujigatamae etc....well I still feel that it is important to know for judo. However if that is taught far in the future while I disagree that it should be an 'advanced' move, it really doesn't affect me right now. What does affect me are basic pins, thus I wanted to touch base on here and at the dojo with people who knew their ground grappling on what to do in that situation.
  6. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2008 10:48pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bridge and roll, and backdoor are two totally valid escapes. A third that I use quite often is to shrimp away to make some space and free some room for my hips, trying my best to get up on one hip, facing toward him. Then I fight to recover any arm that is trapped, pull them in tight, and gable grip my hands together in front of him, building a strong frame. With both of my hands, I then cross face the **** out of him, pushing his head back. When his head is pushed back, I then step my top/far side leg up over his face/neck, and pry the mofo off by driving down with my leg, and adding additional push with my arms if need be. This is a hell of a lot easier if you've shrimped up on one hip even a little bit, and are facing him somewhat.

    Most of the time it's a little hard to get my leg up over his head on the first try, especially if he's really hunkering down. So I will just keep shrimping and cross facing until I can kick it over. Try to be nice to training partners, as it's really easy to kick them across the face when it pops over. Then just pry him off by flexing your ass, and driving your leg back and down.

    Sometimes when doing this, you won't get him fully pried off, but he'll end up getting pulled over the top of you. Then just bridge and roll.

    Other times, he ducks down low to avoid the leg coming over, which tends to slide his weight down next to you. Just contine with the attempts to kick over, and cross facing with the gable grip. Often times it'll open his hold enough to just pop out the back door instead of worrying about the pry off.
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