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  1. Monkey Punch is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 1:01am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by datdamnmachine
    Damn, you might want to change your name to Donkey Punch...that was harsh (in a good way)!

    Sometimes, Pain and Truth walk hand in hand. Sometimes.
  2. Elemental Fist is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 5:04am


     Style: None

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You forgot to mention he also practiced BJJ, Kickboxing and Sumo along with a little bit of Catch Wrestling under Antonio Inoki who tried to make him his protege, hence the Japanese media dubbing Machida the "Second Inoki" due to Inoki being raised in Brazil as well.
    Last edited by Elemental Fist; 5/27/2008 5:06am at .
  3. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 8:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, ignoring what nutriders on any side of this debate will squawk, one can at least suggest that fighters like Machida will be a litmus-test of whether MMA has remained true to its "let's-test-anything-out-to-see-what-works" roots, or whether an orthodoxy has appeared in the sport (MMA is THIS way but not THAT way).

    Those in "the orthodoxy" may see fighters using things that are not immediately recognizable as MT/bjj/SW/boxing and say "WTF? That's not MMA!"...and ignore it thereafter. If people of this view become the majority in the sport, then MMA will become just another MA that includes some techniques and excludes others, merely due to inertia, and those MMA fighters will be susceptible to defeat by someone who can make stuff work that isn't 'orthodox-MMA'.

    Those who remember that MMA is a sport that tests EVERYTHING will look at someone like Machida and say, "That's some unusual **** compared to what I'm used to. Gonna have a closer look at how this karate-based guy does things and see whether or not there's anything I can add to my game. Maybe yes, maybe no...but let's take a look. If I can add some **** from outside the usual, something that my opponents might not expect because it's not the usual, then I might just be able to get an edge."
  4. gojuJKDdude is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:01am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nord
    On Sherdog and elsewhere, I have never seen such extreme views on this guy. People either love his tactics or hate his conservatism.

    Personally, I love him. He proves that perfected TMA is superior to cut-and-paste, watered down combination of rudimentary Thai boxing and wrestling that 99% of UFC fighters use. I definitely see BJJ losing a bit out to Karate in the long run as Machida keeps winning.

    If you look at Machida and proclaim the supremacy of TMA's (ignoring the fact that he is a BJJ black belt as many have already pointed out). Don't you see a "Survivor Bias Fallacy"? I mean think of all the Traditional martial artists that havent made it to the UFC and arent superstars!

    I make the same argument to people who point to Karo Parisian and say that Judo "works" or is "better" etc...
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:14am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vieux Normand
    "That's some unusual **** compared to what I'm used to. Gonna have a closer look at how this karate-based guy does things and see whether or not there's anything I can add to my game. Maybe yes, maybe no...but let's take a look. If I can add some **** from outside the usual, something that my opponents might not expect because it's not the usual, then I might just be able to get an edge."
    Given that this sort of thought process goes on for every aspect of mma already, it should be the default assumption that it is applicable here.

    The main difference is that Machida is drawing on a stylistic basis that has typically not fared well in mma, so there is likely to be more hesitation in applying anything he does. Machida is pretty clearly anomalous. New approaches being drawn from sub grappling have an easier time since sub grappling techniques have a proven track record in mma.
  6. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:17am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh, and as an aside, 40% of the time when Machida actually finishes a fight it is using sub. grappling techniques. His only finish in the UFC was with an arm triangle.
  7. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gojuJKDdude
    If you look at Machida and proclaim the supremacy of TMA's (ignoring the fact that he is a BJJ black belt as many have already pointed out). Don't you see a "Survivor Bias Fallacy"? I mean think of all the Traditional martial artists that havent made it to the UFC and arent superstars!
    Shockingly, the vast majority of BJJ players don't fight in the UFC either.

    As for 'TMA', Shotokan is a decade younger than BJJ.
  8. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:32am


     Style: Yudo, Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also would like to mention that with Lyoto's style, the dude doesn't take much damage. After Tito fight, Lyoto looked like he can walk into cage again right away with a day or two of rest.
  9. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:41am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    Shockingly, the vast majority of BJJ players don't fight in the UFC either.
    While comparing bjj and karate's utility in mma is silly (different range of fighting, the proper comparison would be boxing or MT versus karate), the real question for this artificial dichotomy is how many mma fighters train in bjj versus how many actively train in shotokan.

    I'd guess for fighters in the UFC, the bjj is probably around 70% (not higher because they've been bringing in judo guys lately) and for shotokan it is Machida over the total roster.
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:46am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And yes, I pulled those numbers out of my ass.
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