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  1. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For perhaps the three millionth time, Maeda's only verifiable training other than Judo was sumo and quite a bit of competing in catch wrestling.
  2. Beezer is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:15am


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1
    again, because the gracie's would never lie or exaggerate things...
    Hey, 3moose1, I do not understand your stance on this subject. This is such minor stuff, why would the Gracies lie about it? The judo vs jui-jitsu debate is getting in the way on this subject. Let's say Maeda only taught Judo to Carlos, and taught him everything he knows...over the years the Gracies definently changed and refined that style to make it their own style of martial art. Which, then, goes back to my original point..it's really strange for Marc Laimon to bag on the Gracies, since he teaches their style of BJJ. Unless, Marc Laimon's style is totally different that the Gracies' style of BJJ.
  3. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 11:56am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My opinion on Laimon and comments are he likes to be controversial and is kind of a cock, but he is a talented BJJ practioner and teacher and Cobra Kai is a **** hot place to train in Vegas. He treats his people and visitors well.
    Last edited by chingythingy; 5/27/2008 12:02pm at .
  4. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 12:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer
    Which, then, goes back to my original point..it's really strange for Marc Laimon to bag on the Gracies, since he teaches their style of BJJ. Unless, Marc Laimon's style is totally different that the Gracies' style of BJJ.

    He bags on them because he is of the opinion that the Gracies (more explicitly the gracies teaching out of the Torrance Academy in the early-mid 90's) deliberately withheld information from American students and intentionally hindered his training. This is a sentiment that has been echoed by many Americans training at the Gracie Academy at that time.

    As for why the origins of the style were lied about, the answer is simple. If you teach something that is unique and the jiujitsu it came from is effectively dead, you can charge more and your product is more alluring. If what you're teaching is an offshoot of judo, you have to compete with judo and SAMBO.
  5. Beezer is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 1:17pm


     Style: judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    He bags on them because he is of the opinion that the Gracies (more explicitly the gracies teaching out of the Torrance Academy in the early-mid 90's) deliberately withheld information from American students and intentionally hindered his training. This is a sentiment that has been echoed by many Americans training at the Gracie Academy at that time.

    As for why the origins of the style were lied about, the answer is simple. If you teach something that is unique and the jiujitsu it came from is effectively dead, you can charge more and your product is more alluring. If what you're teaching is an offshoot of judo, you have to compete with judo and SAMBO.
    Interesting.....I guess I need to do more research.
  6. wavy tiger is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 1:52pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Upa, if you don't mind my asking, who else have you heard this from (the whole withholding techniques thing...)? It would be an interesting situation if true, as that implies that there are certified "Gracie Black Belts" out there teaching GJJ (with the Gracie's blessing) while lacking a complete knowledge of the system. Or am I reading too much into that?
  7. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 1:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't remember if I'm conflating things here, but I think a forum member had similar experiences with the Torrance Academy. Since that time Rickson, Royce and others left to start their own schools; leaving Rorian.

    As for "certified" gracie black belts, Rorian has actually only promoted a couple of americans to black belt. Thus there are not individuals teaching with an incomplete body of knowledge.
  8. aaaargh is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 1:56pm


     Style: Inept BJJer

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer
    "Mitsuyo Maeda (1878-1941)-originally trained in classical jiu-jitsu, but switched to the Kodokan at age 18. By making many professional challenge fights, Maeda clearly went against the strict moral codes of Kodokan Judo. Probally because of this, Maeda described his fighting method as jiu-jitsu" rather than "judo".
    I think the whole "moral codes of judo" thing was window dressing from Kano's attempts to get judo incorporated into public schools, at a time when the country was trying to distance itself from its pre-Meiji cultural elements.
  9. Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 2:00pm


     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Zapruder
    What bout Cus D'Amato? Is he a swimmer that never swam? I like Serra but that is just asinine.
    There's nothing wrong with a trainer who doesn't fight. But where it starts to go wrong is when you have a trainer who didn't fight training somebody who also never fights training somebody who also never fights until eventually you end up with karate.
  10. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 2:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So it is completely inapplicable since Laimon trains fighters and competes in grappling.
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