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  1. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 7:35am

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, weight training with high reps is more conducive to fat burn
    ^^^ This part is not necessarily true.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  2. Nihonto is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 7:46am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTKDnCT
    It is a big misconception that athletes need animal products. There are plenty of successful vegetarian and vegan athletes, some of them the best in their sport. Carl Lewis? Tony Gonzalez? Brendan Brazier? Mike Mahler? Mac Danzig? All Vegan. Also, weight training with high reps is more conducive to fat burn...which is what the OP is trying to accomplish. So...aside from 1960's bodybuilder myths...do you know ANYTHING about nutrition or exercise?
    I can only imagine that very high protein supplementation is required to maintain comparable strength on a Vegan diet ... Or a shitload of tofu ...
  3. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 8:47am

    staff
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTKDnCT
    It is a big misconception that athletes need animal products. There are plenty of successful vegetarian and vegan athletes, some of them the best in their sport. Carl Lewis? Tony Gonzalez? Brendan Brazier? Mike Mahler? Mac Danzig? All Vegan. Also, weight training with high reps is more conducive to fat burn...which is what the OP is trying to accomplish. So...aside from 1960's bodybuilder myths...do you know ANYTHING about nutrition or exercise?
    This is the PT forum please keep the taunting to a minimum.

    What myths are you trying to disprove?
    Carl Lewis
    http://raverun.com/writings/run/sg2002/carllewis.html

    I remember vividly making the decision in July of 1990 to become a vegan. I was competing in Europe and ate a meal of Spanish sausage on a Saturday and on the following Monday started eating vegan. The hardest thing for me was changing my eating habits from skipping meals to eating throughout the day - which is much healthier. I also missed salt and so substituted lemon juice for flavor.
    Now, he has 20 medals in the World Championships and the Olympics combined. Thirteen of these medals came BEFORE he went Vegan.

    Tony Gonzalez:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1201...rts_primary_hs

    Three weeks later, he walked into the weight room at the Chiefs' training facility and got a shock. The 100-pound dumbbells he used to easily throw around felt like lead weights. "I was scared out of my mind," he says. Standing on the scale, he learned he'd lost 10 pounds.
    The Chiefs' team nutritionist, Mitzi Dulan, a former vegetarian athlete, did not believe that was enough. With the team's prospects and Mr. Gonzalez's legacy at stake, she persuaded the tight-end to incorporate small amounts of meat into his plant diet. Just no beef, pork or shellfish, he said; only a few servings of fish and chicken a week.
    He is a new vegetarian as of 2007. So, we have to see what happens.

    Brendan Brazier is 100% Vegan now. He was already competing before he switched.

    Mac Danzig
    http://www.mensfitness.com/fitness/288
    . But then in 2004, I got to the point where I was sick of eating chicken. It started grossing me out for some reason. I was about a month out from a fight and I decided I was going to cut out all meat. I was working with a trainer who was vegan and he helped me make the switch. I won that fight and went on a 12-fight winning streak. And [not eating meat] made it really easy to cut weight for that fight.
    Also, competing before he switched.
    Mike Mahler
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler53.htm

    I gave up meat gradually. I stated off by giving up all meat except fish. Then I gave up fish, but continued to eat eggs and dairy. Once I realized that most eggs and dairy products came from animals that lived miserable lives on factory farms, I gave up all animal products. That was ten years ago and I have never looked back. While I am an ethical vegan, there is no doubt in mind that a vegan diet is healthy and that I can get everything that my body need for my intense lifestyle. Regardless, like any other diet, planning is required.


    He is in Phenomenal shape and I'm not discounting his veganism.

    Basically, 50/50 with your examples.


    So, I can argue meat got them all there and they are living off an already meat fueled body.
    I can say wow Veganism or vegatarian diet helped them, who knows?



    I agree that making outright assertions is silly. We can argue veganism all day. The way I look at it is certain diets work for some and not others. The one thing that doesn't support your implied assertion is many of these athletes were established then became great athletes.

    In other words, was it meat and natural progression or was it veganism and natural progression?
    Last edited by It is Fake; 6/04/2008 8:50am at .
  4. MikeTKDnCT is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 12:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: ITF TKD / MT / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First of, thanks Is it Fake for actually having a real debate with me, as I expected the next vet member to respond was just going to attack me. I've read most of the articles you quoted, so in response to that, I think you may have interpreted a few things wrong:

    In the Tony Gonzalez article, it states that although he had difficulty at first and although his nutritionist "PERSUADED" him to eat chicken and such, he did not, "But Mr. Gonzalez managed to stick to his diet and hold onto the football. He broke the touchdown record before midseason..." I've also read in several other articles where he attributes his record breaking year to his "vegan" diet.

    As Far as Carl Lewis is concerned, he was no doubt a fantastic athlete before the diet, but his best year as an athlete was the first year he went vegan, at the 1991 World Championships. These were no doubt his greatest performances as regarded by himself and others. Lewis credits his outstanding 1991 results in part to the vegan diet he adopted in 1990 in a lengthy book introduction.

    So ya, aside from those interpretations I agree! I was taunting only because I got some taunts in the form of negative rep and **** talk...only because I posted advice on how to lean out....correct advice I feel. I know that the fact that I have "TKD" in my name further discredits me, but I did not realize this at the time I signed up ;). The term "Vegan" has a lot of stigma associated with it. Rightly so, as even I get VERY annoyed anytime I see some pale skinny waif of a hippy-homo whining and ranting about the animal's feelings and trying to push people to give up meat.

    I started eating a whole foods, plant-based diet 9 months ago because athletes like Tony, Mac Danzig, Mahler and such inspired me...and I've had more than fantastic results so far. So I really feel compelled to try to share this with whoever I can, only because I really think that anyone who gives it a shot would really love it. If not for all the great ethical and environmental side effects, but just for how fantastic you feel and how much energy and resiliency you get. Trust, I know that meat is fuckin' delicious and I used to put away Jack Daniel's ribs like a champ. But knowing what I know now, and feeling how good I feel, I couldn't go back.

    Oh, and the only point I was initially trying to make before was that, as an athlete, giving up animal products was not "nutritional suicide" as stated by a previous poster in this thread. It's not. TADA!!! Thanks all, peace!
    Last edited by MikeTKDnCT; 6/04/2008 12:04pm at .
  5. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 12:32pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    In other words, was it meat and natural progression or was it veganism and natural progression?
    Neither.

    It was the culmination of blood, sweat, and tears that propelled these athletes towards success.

    Eating habits are secondary, and could be considered a by-product.

    Meat Eater, Vegetarian, Vegan...

    ...without the heart of a athlete, you will fail regardless.
  6. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 12:38pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I sounded more like a sanctimonious ass than I intended.

    My point: Someone with the drive and heart of a professional athlete will make ANY eating arrangement work for them. They have the discipline, education, and motivation to ensure that any eating style is performed in a healthy and logical manner.

    i.e. a Vegan athlete should understand that they'll need to eat a lot of combined foods to fill their protein needs (Beans and Rice, Tofu, Soy Product, TVP, Seitan, Tempeh, Spinach, Lentils, etc...). A meat eating athlete understands that they should minimize the amount of high cholesterol heavy protein they ingest while still maintaining their ideal goals.

    ---

    As such, I think the idea of "Vegan Diet vs Omnivore Diet" is pretty much a moot point, all things considered.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 12:39pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    Neither.

    It was the culmination of blood, sweat, and tears that propelled these athletes towards success.

    Eating habits are secondary, and could be considered a by-product.

    Meat Eater, Vegetarian, Vegan...

    ...without the heart of a athlete, you will fail regardless.
    Nope.
    They are all important. You don't eat properly, it doesn't matter what type of heart you have. You don't have the proper mental attitude/heart, it doesn't matter what type of diet you have.

    Please, this is the PT forum lets not get into a mental/metaphysical debate.

    They all go hand in hand.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/04/2008 12:43pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori

    As such, I think the idea of "Vegan Diet vs Omnivore Diet" is pretty much a moot point, all things considered.
    That is exactly what I implied.
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